Country of Residence of Cruisers ?

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by jobi

I do not understand...pleas help
if I live on my boat and travel the world,,I need a pasport!!
but once the pasport expiers if I dont reside anywhere how do I get a pasport???
if I have no pasport how can I travel the world???
I wish to be a resident of the world..is it possible without the risk of having my boat seized for not having a pasport??

That’s easy Jobi

When your passport is due to expire, you only need proof of citizenship to renew or in Canada “re-apply” for a new one.

Nothing to do with residency, which I always give as my yacht, since that is considered a legitimate domicile.

That can be done easily in any foreign embassy and I have been doing that for many years with both my UK and Canadian passports

[savoir]

Quite right.

Passport has nothing to do with either tax residency or domicile.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by jobi

I do not understand...pleas help
if I live on my boat and travel the world,,I need a pasport!!
but once the pasport expiers if I dont reside anywhere how do I get a pasport???
if I have no pasport how can I travel the world???
I wish to be a resident of the world..is it possible without the risk of having my boat seized for not having a pasport??

Well, Jobi, I seem to be addressing you a lot of late!

Can't speak as to Canada, but for us Yanks, when the passport is about to expire, we go to the nearest US embassy and renew it. Done this several times so far, no real problems. For most yotties, one's official residence is still one's country of origin. That is where you will best register your boat, and maintain a driver's license (usefull most places you might travel to) and so on. If you don't have income from a pension or such back home, and if you don't have a "regular" job with income while cruising, then no income tax is owed and there are few downsides to maintaining this official residency.

And yes, your life as a offshore cruiser will not be easy without a passport. There may be some loopholes a p/p-less yottie might sneak through in some places, but having to do this sort of thing is a way worse pain in the ass than is maintaining the passport! YMMV.

Cheers,

Jim

[otherthan]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Well, Jobi, I seem to be addressing you a lot of late!

Can't speak as to Canada, but for us Yanks, when the passport is about to expire, we go to the nearest US embassy and renew it. Done this several times so far, no real problems. For most yotties, one's official residence is still one's country of origin. That is where you will best register your boat, and maintain a driver's license (usefull most places you might travel to) and so on. If you don't have income from a pension or such back home, and if you don't have a "regular" job with income while cruising, then no income tax is owed and there are few downsides to maintaining this official residency.

And yes, your life as a offshore cruiser will not be easy without a passport. There may be some loopholes a p/p-less yottie might sneak through in some places, but having to do this sort of thing is a way worse pain in the ass than is maintaining the passport! YMMV.

Cheers,

Jim

I havent even left and alredy having problems optaining my passport because I have no adress...cant imagin how hard this will be when my passport expiers in 5 years

thanks

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by cat man do

...

Can a yacht be your abode?
This bit I really had to hunt for, the easily found definitions say no it can't, but digging through the law section I found this bit of ATO legislation that says yes
Quote:
TD 92/158 - Income tax: capital gains: can the following comprise a 'dwelling' and therefore be eligible for exemption as a main residence (i) a structure built underground? (ii) a yacht? (iii) a tent? (As at 21 April 2010)
A Yacht
3. A yacht may, under certain circumstances, constitute a mobile home or houseboat and therefore, a 'dwelling' for exemption purposes. Provided that the level of facilities is such as to make the yacht habitable, the yacht will be accepted as a 'dwelling'.

Terrific Stuff cat man do!

One of the great things I love about Australia is that customs and tax laws are explained very well in layman’s terms.

In the 90’s I spent more than a year in and out of Brisbane, (Dockside Marina), while we were getting a new 28ft custom dive tender built locally for a Superyacht.

At that time they had insufficient power cables to the outside berths, so we ran our generators all the time.. (not unusual for the big boats)

This law plus a tax exemption law on fuel used to generate power for a domicile meant that if we could prove our consumption for Gens only, we might be eligible for a refund.

Customs inspected our engineering setup.. (UMS classification .. which meant computer log of every startup and change over, plus my ship’s log of movements (propulsion fuel was not eligible) and they were satisfied we could demonstrate fuel consumed generating electrical power for the domicile.

12 months later I submitted the paperwork and within 3 months I received a check for about AU$ 98k.

My employer was very surprised and impressed by that Australian refund which made at my preference to keep returning to Australia for refits that much easier.

The point I am making is that the laws are out there and you need to find and confirm them with the authorities.

Australia makes it easier than most but sadly, most captains are too lazy to investigate.

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by jobi

I havent even left and alredy having problems optaining my passport because I have no adress...cant imagin how hard this will be when my passport expiers in 5 years

thanks

In the past, renewing (or as they then called it then re-applying) for a Canadian passport was notoriously difficult and convoluted.

Many complaints from overseas citizens including myself.

Just looked at their new form and they seem to be addressing the problem if you already have a Canadian passport and are doing it in the US or Canada.
Passport Canada: Canadians - Simplified Renewal Application Process


When I look at the overseas consular services, they are more strict wanting original citizenship papers, which you should always carry anyways in a water/fireproof safe onboard.

Passport Services


On the address issue;

• Give the yacht name and marina address where your boat is presently located as a permanent address (which is the boat)
• Don’t confuse them by explaining that the boat moves around
• When you go to “renew” overseas, just use the local yacht club or marina as part of your permanent address
• For mailing address (family or mailing service that works), but for passport pick up overseas, plan to do that personally at the consular office or embassy.

Appearance and presentation helps when you go to the embassies since your country is also assessing whether you are a competent traveler or a liability as a citizen.

Just be patient and cool with them as most of the consular officers hate their jobs and they are rewarded for finding problems with your application.

[Kettlewell]

IMHO speaking as a US citizen you just make your own life more difficult if you try to sail around with no regular address, etc. Unless you make an awful lot of money taxes should be minimal in any case, and I found being a US citizen my cruising income is low enough to qualify me for tax breaks, etc. that are for poor people.

Even if you don't have a "real" address you call home, if you make yourself look like you do you can avoid all sorts of hassle. For example, you will want to keep a drivers license, right? If so, you'll need a legitimate state address where you can have mail sent, and this address will also be where your car insurance gets hooked to if you should buy a car. When you check in and out of countries they always want your land address, and it can save further hassle if you have one that looks totally legitimate and ordinary. It is really ideal if all your addresses match on things like your boat documentation, your insurance, your radio license, whatever. You don't want to provide officials with anything that might raise questions.

Also, in extremis you might want to fall back on the good graces of your country's embassy or mission. Sure, right now the possibility seems remote to you, but what happens if your passport is stolen and all your money while in a foreign country? Or what happens if you're thrown in jail on some illegitimate charge? It might be nice to have your country backing you up.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Kettlewell

IMHO speaking as a US citizen you just make your own life more difficult if you try to sail around with no regular address

Indeed, but you can use an address of a family member or use a service to provide you with an address and forward all your mail etc.

state address where you can have mail sent, and this address will also be where your car insurance gets hooked to if you should buy a car.

I bought a car here in Panama and have insurance which lists the address of a marina. You need to buy insurance in the country where you register the car, not in the country that is listed on your passport.

Also, in extremis you might want to fall back on the good graces of your country's embassy or mission. Sure, right now the possibility seems remote to you, but what happens if your passport is stolen and all your money while in a foreign country? Or what happens if you're thrown in jail on some illegitimate charge? It might be nice to have your country backing you up.

Yes but they will do that as long as you have the passport, regardless of your country of residence.

ciao!
Nick.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by Doodles

As a CPA our favorite answer always starts with ...."It depends....".

Haven't got to the end of the thread yet..........

....but one of my favourite sayings is "No such thing as cheap tax advice"...........you pay now, or pay later. or both

[otherthan]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

In the past, renewing (or as they then called it then re-applying) for a Canadian passport was notoriously difficult and convoluted.

Many complaints from overseas citizens including myself.

Just looked at their new form and they seem to be addressing the problem if you already have a Canadian passport and are doing it in the US or Canada.
Passport Canada: Canadians - Simplified Renewal Application Process


When I look at the overseas consular services, they are more strict wanting original citizenship papers, which you should always carry anyways in a water/fireproof safe onboard.

Passport Services


On the address issue;

• Give the yacht name and marina address where your boat is presently located as a permanent address (which is the boat)
• Don’t confuse them by explaining that the boat moves around
• When you go to “renew” overseas, just use the local yacht club or marina as part of your permanent address
• For mailing address (family or mailing service that works), but for passport pick up overseas, plan to do that personally at the consular office or embassy.

Appearance and presentation helps when you go to the embassies since your country is also assessing whether you are a competent traveler or a liability as a citizen.

Just be patient and cool with them as most of the consular officers hate their jobs and they are rewarded for finding problems with your application.

Thanks I will use the marinas address...however in doing so means I have to pay a permanent residency.
cheers

[Bash]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Bash.... sorry mate but you wanna pay taxes... thank you... me.. catch me if you can..

As attractive as the prospect is of soliciting tax advice from those who don't pay taxes....

There are legal, ethical, proper ways to avoid paying double taxes on income earned abroad. For example, if a writer publishes a book in his home country, and then contracts with publishers in other countries to sell foreign rights on the same book, it's fairly easy to set up systems where you only have to pay taxes on royalties to the countries where those royalties were earned.

I'm certainly not qualified to give tax advice, but I have found that retaining an accountant and/or tax lawyer who specializes in international business is well worth the effort. In my own experience, such professionals have consistently helped me earn more money than I've had to pay for their services.

Those who are paying double taxes on income earned worldwide would do well to consult a professional if the amount of tax they are paying is at all significant.

[Doodles]

Originally Posted by Bash

As attractive as the prospect is of soliciting tax advice from those who don't pay taxes....

There are legal, ethical, proper ways to avoid paying double taxes on income earned abroad. For example, if a writer publishes a book in his home country, and then contracts with publishers in other countries to sell foreign rights on the same book, it's fairly easy to set up systems where you only have to pay taxes on royalties to the countries where those royalties were earned.

I'm certainly not qualified to give tax advice, but I have found that retaining an accountant and/or tax lawyer who specializes in international business is well worth the effort. In my own experience, such professionals have consistently helped me earn more money than I've had to pay for their services.

Those who are paying double taxes on income earned worldwide would do well to consult a professional if the amount of tax they are paying is at all significant.

Of course, I agree completely.

A US citizen (the only thing I really know about) should never be paying double taxes due to taxes paid in a foreign country. As a US citizen you pay on your "worldwide" income regardless of where it was earned, but the US allows a foreign tax credit for any taxes paid on foreign sourced income. It gets quite complicated and its not always exactly a 1-for-1 offset, but you don't get double taxed.

[hellosailor]

"I wish to be a resident of the world..is it possible"
Since "the world" doesn't have any office that issues passports, that may not be possible.
The governments that do seem to cover the world would refer to you as a "stateless person" and if you search on that phrase, you may find the complications of getting some type of travel documents issued, and the limits on where they might be recognized.

[atoll]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

"I wish to be a resident of the world..is it possible"
Since "the world" doesn't have any office that issues passports, that may not be possible.
The governments that do seem to cover the world would refer to you as a "stateless person" and if you search on that phrase, you may find the complications of getting some type of travel documents issued, and the limits on where they might be recognized.

sailing down to SAINT PETER AND PAUL ROCKS later this year,intend claiming soverignty under the name of" THE REPUBLIC OF MID ATLANTICA"

for provisional passport applications send $100 to my paypal a/c,all enquiries delt with in the strictist confidence.

proposed constitution
0% tax
free health care,diy manual included.
for a small fee will issue letters of marque.
for a small fee fire arms licences for heavy weaponry issued to yachts flying our flag as part of our navy.

to eliminate corruption,government ministers will have to pay the state to hold the position of office,any renumeration gained thru using that position will be taxed at 70%.

perspective citizens are welcome to debate matters of state on this forum.

king atoll

[cat man do]

Originally Posted by atoll

sailing down to SAINT PETER AND PAUL ROCKS later this year,intend claiming soverignty under the name of" THE REPUBLIC OF MID ATLANTICA"

Ah, Royalty, just like HRH Princess Shirley