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Old 29-10-2010, 17:02   #91
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Just because you see someon cleaning fish on a boat it doesnt mean he owns the fish. He may be an employee, or the boat owner going on contract etc; most likely is that he is fishing in a cooperative. We all have Co-Op companies in our countries. They are so everyone sells fish to a market and all gain the best dollar return. If one fisherman sells outside the co-op all lose.

One co-op breaker may be penalised..... A worker of the fisherman who breaks co-op rules will still have his boss penalised.

Its a romanitc notion that we cruisers come along and buy fresh flapping ones from the locals....... but thats all it is roamanitc dreams of the perfect lifestyle!

Ask once if you can buy a fish but remember he may not be allowed
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Old 29-10-2010, 17:40   #92
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Ask once if you can buy a fish but remember he may not be allowed
Not to mention that "Fishman" buys fish from him everyday and provides him with the income to live on and a visitor only buys from him every now and again. Which is smarter for the fisherman to keep happy? Fishman? or the Visitor?

Most wholesalers have non compete arrangements with retailers who agree to purchase the bulk of their product. The retailer wants assurances that the wholesaler will not undercut him and become competition.
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Old 29-10-2010, 17:49   #93
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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
Let's keep the utter impractical nonsense ( radio controlled emp and 50 caliber etc) out of this debate.

Dave
I've really gotta fire those emoticons. They're sleeping on the job.
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Old 29-10-2010, 18:41   #94
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Originally Posted by capn_billl View Post
I asked why they said fishman buys them. I asked how much fishman pays per fish. They said he buys whole boat. I asked how many fish did they catch, they said good catch today. I asked will fishman miss one fish, they said no they sometime keep some for family. I asked how many fish he caught, he said 31 and proudly showed them. I asked how much fishman pay, he said 3 ringet. I said I give 1 ringet for one fish, he tried to give all fish, I said no only one. (language barrier, and apparently unable to do math). He gave me a fish, I gave him a ringet. Up until now the other fishermen kept working except an occasional joke or snide comment. As soon as I handed this fisherman a bonus of about 30% the others jumped up shouting, "buy my fish too", and shoved fish into my face violently.

I am sorry Bill but this makes no sense at all to me. I lived in Malaysia for 5 years and I visit Malaysia every 2 weeks on business. I sail into and out of Malaysia about every 2 months.

I have never seen anything even close to this kind of behavior.

I also don't understand the math. He sells fish for 3 ringgit and you pay him 1 ringgit and everyone goes crazy?

Plus cat and Mark are also correct. Fishermen might be employees, they do want to keep the trade industry working and will not screw the distributor.

I have traded for fish. Usually on the water and usually for beer.

You do know that 1 ringgit is also about 32 cents US. No fisherman in Malaysia is going to sell a decent fish for 32 cents. They know market prices.

Sorry but this tall tale smells fishy...
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Old 29-10-2010, 19:00   #95
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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
God this nonsense make me mad more nonsense from the flog'm and hang'm brigade

Hears a summary of the lunatic Fringe

"shoot. Them with a 50 caliber"
" it's too late now we have to wipe them all out"
" it's their culture's fault they just rob westerners"

Of course all of this overlooks the fact that us westerners have systemstically plundered pillaged and subjugated these types of people again and again throughout history and are continuing to do so right to the present day

Piracy stated for several reasons in Somalia. A country where western involvement has a lot of blood on it's hands. Equally the destruction of their fishing grounds by western fishing fleets provided the incentives. To have the gaul to suggest that poor people should abide by your rich laws as they sit around starving shows a monumental lack of understanding. Why is it that Westerners in general and US in particular think problems like this can be solved by force. In reality no conflict has been resolved by force. Force merely supresses the problem for a short time.

Suggestions in this thread to arm yourself and supposedly fight back are ridiculous. These guys are not simple robbers or thieves. The have a grudge. Nor are they afraid of a little gun play attack these guys with a .22 and all that happens is the next yacht will be totally shot up before they even close in and they'll kill the occupants for sure. This is why the commercial shipping companies are either using private armies ie overwhelming firepower on the ship or safe rooms or merely accepting that it's an insurance payout. Non are sugessting arming the crew to try and defend themselves.


The fact is that by and large the somali pirates have not shown a propensity to kill ( or even hurt) people. Even the chandlers are still alive and being fed.

As to the "nuke" emm brigade. All you do is replace one set of dead pirates with another. Short of wiping out the whole country ( and that's called genocide, folks), widespread armed intervention will not work. ( not to mention the huge amount of civilian casualties. See Iraq for info)

Vietnam, Korea, suez, chad, Congo, Bosnia , iraq ,palistine, afganistan will or have been " solved" by military action. Ultimately just like northern Ireland you have to get all the sides to sit down and hammer out a deal if that means " talking" to pirates, terrorists,freedom fighter's, etc etc then that's what needed and in fact governments have shown a willingness to do just that.

As to yachts and pirates if you find that despite your attempts to remain unnoticed fail all you can hope is that a peaceful surrender will at least keep you are you family alive.

Let's keep the utter impractical nonsense ( radio controlled emp and 50 caliber etc) out of this debate.

Dave
Lmao.....
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Old 29-10-2010, 20:03   #96
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Hey, Del... you can pick up a 50 cal at the Reno Gun Show... may have to do a few mods to make it fully auto, though! Capt Phil
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Old 29-10-2010, 20:46   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
God this nonsense make me mad more nonsense from the flog'm and hang'm brigade

Hears a summary of the lunatic Fringe

"shoot. Them with a 50 caliber"
" it's too late now we have to wipe them all out"
" it's their culture's fault they just rob westerners"

Of course all of this overlooks the fact that us westerners have systemstically plundered pillaged and subjugated these types of people again and again throughout history and are continuing to do so right to the present day

Piracy stated for several reasons in Somalia. A country where western involvement has a lot of blood on it's hands. Equally the destruction of their fishing grounds by western fishing fleets provided the incentives. To have the gaul to suggest that poor people should abide by your rich laws as they sit around starving shows a monumental lack of understanding. Why is it that Westerners in general and US in particular think problems like this can be solved by force. In reality no conflict has been resolved by force. Force merely supresses the problem for a short time.

Suggestions in this thread to arm yourself and supposedly fight back are ridiculous. These guys are not simple robbers or thieves. The have a grudge. Nor are they afraid of a little gun play attack these guys with a .22 and all that happens is the next yacht will be totally shot up before they even close in and they'll kill the occupants for sure. This is why the commercial shipping companies are either using private armies ie overwhelming firepower on the ship or safe rooms or merely accepting that it's an insurance payout. Non are sugessting arming the crew to try and defend themselves.


The fact is that by and large the somali pirates have not shown a propensity to kill ( or even hurt) people. Even the chandlers are still alive and being fed.

As to the "nuke" emm brigade. All you do is replace one set of dead pirates with another. Short of wiping out the whole country ( and that's called genocide, folks), widespread armed intervention will not work. ( not to mention the huge amount of civilian casualties. See Iraq for info)

Vietnam, Korea, suez, chad, Congo, Bosnia , iraq ,palistine, afganistan will or have been " solved" by military action. Ultimately just like northern Ireland you have to get all the sides to sit down and hammer out a deal if that means " talking" to pirates, terrorists,freedom fighter's, etc etc then that's what needed and in fact governments have shown a willingness to do just that.

As to yachts and pirates if you find that despite your attempts to remain unnoticed fail all you can hope is that a peaceful surrender will at least keep you are you family alive.

Let's keep the utter impractical nonsense ( radio controlled emp and 50 caliber etc) out of this debate.

Dave
Wow, are you naive. I think violence to "suppress the problem for a short time" has it's merits over surrendering and hoping not to be robbed, shot or cut up and left to sink with your boat. There are folks out there who would do this to you just for the diesel, food and fresh water you might have, some just fishermen, some pirates on the prowl, some both. "Hey Assam, there's a yacht. Lets go see what they have. Maybe something to eat, some fresh water and diesel. Look there's a woman and a young girl! Got your machete?"
I'll rack a round and waive them off with my shotgun before they get a hand on my boat. You can peacefully surrender, invite them aboard and hope you and your family are left to live.
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Old 29-10-2010, 21:24   #98
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Hey, Del... you can pick up a 50 cal at the Reno Gun Show... may have to do a few mods to make it fully auto, though! Capt Phil
Heck! I don't need to go to Reno. I can build one out here in my shop if I wanted. But if I were to build anything it would be an RPG. With the right warhead they are one of the most effective range weapons, against personnel, ever built other then a frag bomb or napalm.

The thing about standing off the pirates is your vessel would have to be strong enough to take a few hits. A Steel boat would be best. If not just............

.
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Old 29-10-2010, 21:25   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vintageray View Post
Wow, are you naive. I think violence to "suppress the problem for a short time" has it's merits over surrendering and hoping not to be robbed, shot or cut up and left to sink with your boat. There are folks out there who would do this to you just for the diesel, food and fresh water you might have, some just fishermen, some pirates on the prowl, some both. "Hey Assam, there's a yacht. Lets go see what they have. Maybe something to eat, some fresh water and diesel. Look there's a woman and a young girl! Got your machete?"
I'll rack a round and waive them off with my shotgun before they get a hand on my boat. You can peacefully surrender, invite them aboard and hope you and your family are left to live.
LMAO....
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Old 29-10-2010, 21:26   #100
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Does anyone have links to any stories of pirates being scarred away by armed cruiser's?

Cruisers who have been maimed or killed during the attack?

Cruisers who have been maimed or killed after surrender?


Cruisers who have successfully navigated pirate infested waters unscathed?


Cruisers who have been eaten by man eating trigger fish?
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Old 29-10-2010, 22:05   #101
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In, Confessions Of A long Distance Sailor, Paul Lutus tells of his encounter with pirates at sea between Darwin and Sri Lanka.
He thinks "anyone who sails these waters without a gun and the willingness to use it is a fool.".
Google: Confessions Of A long Distance Sailor and download the book for free. He circumnavigated on a 31' sail boat.
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Old 29-10-2010, 22:11   #102
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OK - So yachts are already going in convoy.

Why not hire a couple or 3 of the pirate dorys to provide armed escort?

They're not fishing, they're not pirating, they've already got the guns and they're getting a guaranteed paycheck - everyone happy!

Call it a job retraining program and you could get congressional funding.
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Old 29-10-2010, 22:46   #103
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Wow, are you naive.
I'll rack a round and waive them off with my shotgun .
And while you rack a round up your shottie they'll probably rack an RPG or AK round up your ar$e form a distance.

Perhaps it is you who are naive
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Old 29-10-2010, 22:57   #104
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In, Confessions Of A long Distance Sailor, Paul Lutus tells of his encounter with pirates at sea between Darwin and Sri Lanka.
He thinks "anyone who sails these waters without a gun and the willingness to use it is a fool.".
Google: Confessions Of A long Distance Sailor and download the book for free. He circumnavigated on a 31' sail boat.
This is the passage you are talking about?

Quote:
Today I met the pirates I've been hearing about. No shots were fired, no knives were drawn, but they meant to board Selene, and I stopped them.

About 10 AM I saw an odd-looking sailboat about three miles in front of mine. I was sailing close to the wind, as I have been doing so far this crossing. I watched this boat just to be sure we didn't smack each other. After a few minutes I saw we were on a collision path, so I changed course to clear them — then they changed course also, dead on. They were sailing downwind, so they could match any course change I made, so I decided to bear on and see what they were up to. I also loaded my shotgun.

The boat's sails were my first clue that it wasn't a European sailboat — they were large bolts of printed silk, cut to match the dimensions of a wooden mast and boom. When there was about 1/2 mile left to go, they stopped their boat in the water and launched a dinghy. Well, I thought, this is classical, except things like this usually happen at night.

I decided on a strategy — I would make sure they saw my gun, then if they approached within touching distance of my boat I would fire a warning shot, then if they tried to board I would shoot them. I have heard enough pirate stories to know if they got on board, my chance of staying alive wasn't very good.

One person rowed the dinghy the short distance between my boat and theirs. I took up a position on the rail with shotgun in hand, trying to be conspicuous. He wasn't going very fast in his rowing dinghy, but I wasn't going very fast either, maybe 3 1/2 to 4 knots. Just as he reached out to grab my boat and be towed along, he saw the gun and stopped. As he came alongside he smiled and made a sign that I should let him and his friends on board for a drink. I looked beyond him to the sailboat and could see at least four more men on board. I shook my head and waved him away with the gun.

He rowed back to his vessel, and after they had secured the dinghy they tried to sail toward me for a while. I found this particularly scary, since they knew I was armed and they were trying to catch me anyway — therefore, I thought, they are also armed and plan to shoot it out. But I was sailing close to the wind and they couldn't match my speed or course, and they soon broke off the pursuit.

The critical moment in this episode was when the man in the dinghy reached out to my boat to pull himself along, and I came to the rail and stopped him. We looked across the barrel of my shotgun for a moment, and he realized I'd use it if I had to.

I didn't have time to think during this episode — afterward some things occurred to me. One is that I could have been in the cabin reading, as I do for hours at a time, and at least one person would have been on board before I knew. Another is a description I read of typical pirates in these waters — part-time fishermen who raid passing boats.

I personally think there is no way I could have kept them off my boat without the shotgun, and the appearance of the gun was pivotally discouraging. Today I think anyone who sails these waters without a gun — and a willingness to use it — is a fool.

(Later: Ursula visited a freighter at Cocos Keeling and told the captain the pirate story. She asked whether he thought they were pirates or just fishermen. The captain said, "Anyone who approaches you on the high seas is your enemy.")
How do they know they weren't just fisherman wanting to trade for some smokes, water, fuel ?
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Old 30-10-2010, 01:39   #105
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I got raided by a scary bandito in Baja once. As we were driving through a small town 20 miles from pavement, a tough looking guy stood in the middle of the road blocking our progress. As we slowed to a stop, he walked over to the driver's window with a scowl on his face. We greeted him with nervous "Holas" and he said something I never expected.
"Uno Coca, por favor."
A coke, please.
It was hot and the nearest store was miles away and he was thirsty.
You really never know what might happen.
As far as pirates, I hope my boat looks shabby and strong enough to seem not worth it.
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