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Old 12-06-2011, 22:16   #211
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Re: Common Sense Answer to Pirates

There are a few people making untold millions of dollars supplying these people with the weaponry and ammunition. Somali does not have the infrastructure to create that type of weaponry. Bring the various international arms dealers to justice for causing this misery,these people are quite well known to the various international intelligence agency. But the allure to huge cash bribes will not put an end to this.
To point a gun and shoot a human under duress is not an easy task, unless you had military,law enforcement training or brought up in a hunting culture and made a kill. Shooting classes teach how to handle the weapon safely and shoot at inanimated target.To shoot something live requires whole different mind set,even under duress.
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Old 13-06-2011, 04:57   #212
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Re: Common Sense Answer to Pirates

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Originally Posted by Jon Hacking View Post
Many have stated this opinion - all of them safely elsewhere with no plans or need to cross the Indian Ocean. While this is certainly a valid opinion, it doesn't help those of our cruising fraternity who need it.

There are several hundred cruisers in SE Asia right now, with about 150 more arriving each year (look at the stats for the Cruise Indonesia Rally). A very few go back to Australia (<10? It's a cow of a trip). Even fewer try to go past Japan to the US west coast. More boats are spending more time here in SE Asia now, but the vast majority of them are wanting to get across the Indian Ocean somehow. I believe the point of this thread is to give them ideas on how to accomplish this. We have lots of brains here on CF - let's put them together to see what we can come up with!
No one needs to sail in Somali Pirate waters - the easy answers are:-

a) go another route
b) load onto a container ship
c) hire an armed protection vessel (for self or a convoy)
d) hire a delivery skipper (and crew) - and fly

The above all share one thing in common - they involve putting hand in own pocket..........instead of someone else's.
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Old 13-06-2011, 06:06   #213
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shiny boats and poor people

this post is primarily aimed at those wanting to cross the indian ocean via chagos and the mozambique channel.

having been 5 times through the gulf of aden and up the red sea,one of those times was with "mahidi and gandalf" in 2005,they left oman 2 days before us.

the attached photos were on a later trip in 2006 from madagasgar via zanzibar and north up the red sea.

on 2 occasions on that trip we were followed by somali/yemeni vessels who were without doubt engaged in pirate activities.

due to our paint job im pretty sure they didnt't board us due to the fact that on seeing the vessel they decided they could find richer pickings elsewhere!!!

with people like jon hacking and others in mind who are thinking of going via mozambique channel.

a little trick you may try is using some waterbased paint on the hulls to temperarally disguise the shiny nature of your vessels,also hang old ropes and fishing net on the guard rails.

most household water based acrilic paints can easyly be peeled of when you reach south africa.

worth a try................
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Old 13-06-2011, 06:33   #214
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Re: Common Sense Answer to Pirates

I wonder if money counts?

Put a rally together from India to Seychelles with 150 yachts and ask India & Seychelles for protection. Whilst Seychelles won't have a huge Navy the income generation would be huge incentive for them and they must be hurting at the moment. Seychelles to Yemen perhaps, same again big numbers lots of income generation might just make it attractive enough.

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Old 13-06-2011, 08:03   #215
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Re: Common Sense Answer to Pirates

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Originally Posted by capn_billl View Post
Outside of movies, I've never seen or heard of a single situation, where outside of conflicts with armed law enforcement having a weapon increased risk of death. If you have a weapon and are surprised, outgunned, and outnumbered, you can choose not to "pull it out". In which case you are no worse off than if you never had it. Being completely disarmed and defensless doesn't have a good track record either, (ask the millions of victims who were murdered AFTER being robbed so they couldn't identify their attackers).
I have never beeon on a larger vessel where they didn't have a gun locker stashed with weapons. Most large vessel have this.
I have to agree with Capt. Bill on this one.
Good post Captain Bill
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Old 13-06-2011, 09:05   #216
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Re: shiny boats and poor people

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Originally Posted by atoll View Post
this post is primarily aimed at those wanting to cross the indian ocean via chagos and the mozambique channel.

having been 5 times through the gulf of aden and up the red sea,one of those times was with "mahidi and gandalf" in 2005,they left oman 2 days before us.

the attached photos were on a later trip in 2006 from madagasgar via zanzibar and north up the red sea.

on 2 occasions on that trip we were followed by somali/yemeni vessels who were without doubt engaged in pirate activities.

due to our paint job im pretty sure they didnt't board us due to the fact that on seeing the vessel they decided they could find richer pickings elsewhere!!!

with people like jon hacking and others in mind who are thinking of going via mozambique channel.

a little trick you may try is using some waterbased paint on the hulls to temperarally disguise the shiny nature of your vessels,also hang old ropes and fishing net on the guard rails.

most household water based acrilic paints can easyly be peeled of when you reach south africa.

worth a try................
That's a really good idea. Did you put the paint on while the boat was in the water, or did you do a haul out before trekking into the dangerous waters?
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Old 13-06-2011, 09:17   #217
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Re: Common Sense Answer to Pirates

atoll-- the ruse you discuss has been in the real world for sooo long and is soooo easy and i dont understand why more folks dont believe in this .... shiny attracts rats. thankyou for the reinforcement.
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Old 13-06-2011, 09:18   #218
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Re: Common Sense Answer to Pirates

Interesting thread. I appreciate humor but not the illogical solutions proposed by some contributors and trainee pirate exterminators. I’m sure that the arm chair heroes out there would have a very different view of the situation if they themselves had any serious plans to put their own boats and their own lives at risk and take on the challenge to cross the Indian Ocean and transit “pirate alley”.

The reality and seriousness of the situation is very evident in my part of the world (Langkawi, Malaysia and Phuket, Thailand) which are two of the traditional staging locations for cruisers intending to travel west across the Indian Ocean, the Gulf and on to the Mediterranean.

Of the smaller than average number of yachts that departed here in January/March it is reported that many have now assessed the risk as being just too dangerous and abandoned their plans. Some of the cruisers have made unscheduled stopovers and arranged to have their boats transported as deck cargo to the Med. Some are reported to have turned around and are on their way back to Thailand, Malaysia and Singapore. Others are still here with their boats in the marinas, some with “for sale” signs and others abandoned with their owners elsewhere.

The Thai Navy, Malaysian Navy and the Australian Navy have each contributed considerable assets to the U.S lead multi-national force that is trying to protect commercial shipping passing through these problem areas. They have big ships with big guns, missiles and helicopters but this show of strength has not deterred the pirates. It remains a very risky passage for the cruiser.
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Old 13-06-2011, 09:42   #219
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Re: Common Sense Answer to Pirates

It is still a big ocean out there even with the combined Navie's radars, and small vessels will still be able to slip by, these people have nothing to lose and everything to gain. Dodging a Navy destroyer is child's play when there is certain death waiting for you on the beach. zeehag, I whole heartedly endorse your message about shiny attracting rats. I also believe that you carry a good spirit and that provides you with a protection that some of the rest of us do not have. My Mother is a traveling person and she has sailed and walked nearly everywhere and the only real hassle she ever has had was from the border officials from Morroco. Good on you and keep the faith Sister!
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Old 13-06-2011, 09:51   #220
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Re: Common Sense Answer to Pirates

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Some are reported to have turned around and are on their way back to Thailand, Malaysia and Singapore. Others are still here with their boats in the marinas, some with “for sale” signs and others abandoned with their owners elsewhere.
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I don't think all is lost and commend you to a really good look at going via South Africa.

The difficulty is really one of perception that cruisers will miss out on the Mediterranean. Thats doesn't need to be so at all. Sure it adds some sailing miles but its a downwind run from Gibraltar to Turkey. In fact cruising that direction could be easier that cruising the other way. So theres 2 options: straight through the Med to Turkey (especially if the budget is tight), or a slow cruise starting west and dribbling east.



I am so pleased everyone is taking the threat so seriously now. Last year I was the pariah of the group because I was **** scared. Now, fortunately, everyone realises the fear just ain't worth it... let alone the actuality of being captured.

it is a bit lovely being here in the Caribbean without a security problem in the world But I still remember my guts wrenching when I brought the binoculars up to my eyes and saw a real pirate skiff attacking a container ship only a few hundred yards from us. I don't want other cruisers, far less the womenfolk, to experience that.




It was insane to put a girl, or anyone, in this position. Especially someone you claim to love.


Friend or foe?


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Old 13-06-2011, 10:34   #221
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Re: Common Sense Answer to Pirates

i just hope more folks listen to markj, who has been there and browned his shorts, and my rant about shiny kills..... mebbe we can save more folks from disasters that are truly avoidable......
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Old 13-06-2011, 14:33   #222
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I have never beeon on a larger vessel where they didn't have a gun locker stashed with weapons. Most large vessel have this.
I have to agree with Capt. Bill on this one.
Good post Captain Bill
You haven't been on a lot then. Very few commercial vessels carry firearms most countries rules don't allow it.

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Old 13-06-2011, 18:53   #223
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Re: Common Sense Answer to Pirates

I think he means non-commercial motor yachts.

Forgot premise of thread "common sense answer to pirates" - is to hide in the vessel?
Doesn't seem so smart to me..."Where oh where are the farangs?".
However.
I am thinking of heading to south east Asia - phuket is a good start.
Besides the melodrama, quixotic bs, and old women with baseball bats.

How do you cross? Phuket to Caribbean - easy around south Africa - but from Here to there??? The wind is right - right now - just ak's in the way...
Realistically....?....
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Old 15-06-2011, 08:36   #224
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Re: Common Sense Answer to Pirates

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...How do you cross? Phuket to Caribbean - easy around south Africa - but from Here to there??? The wind is right - right now - just ak's in the way... Realistically. ?
Not sure where you are just now, Allez. But getting to SE Asia is no problem. We joined the Sail Indonesia Rally (& thoroughly enjoyed it) because they arranged so many cultural events for us.

Crossing the Indian is the dodgy bit, but shouldn't be a problem for a big Catana. We'll probably go Sri Lanka, Maldives, Chagos, N Madagascar (&/or possibly Mauritius/Reunion). It's timing that's difficult, as you want to leave SE Asia with enough of the NE monsoon left to get you to at least Sri Lanka & maybe even the Maldives (say, Feb/March, although in 2007 we motor-sailed 1/3 of the Sri Lanka-Maldives leg). And you don't want to sail to Madagascar until at least June (when the pirates seem to clear out of the Madagascar area). If you wait until July, then the SE Trades may have strengthened enough to prevent you getting to Mauritius & Reunion if such be your desire (we had 35 knots from the SSW in July 2007).

Sailing along the west coast of Madagascar is delightful, with the onshore/offshore winds switching about 10-11, am & pm. But unless you go down to the bottom of Madagascar, you can't really head down the Mozambique Channel until October or so (& watch out for sleeping whales). I can give more info if anyone's interested...
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Old 15-06-2011, 08:44   #225
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Re: Common Sense Answer to Pirates

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Not sure where you are just now, Allez. But getting to SE Asia is no problem. We joined the Sail Indonesia Rally (& thoroughly enjoyed it) because they arranged so many cultural events for us.

Crossing the Indian is the dodgy bit, but shouldn't be a problem for a big Catana. We'll probably go Sri Lanka, Maldives, Chagos, N Madagascar (&/or possibly Mauritius/Reunion). It's timing that's difficult, as you want to leave SE Asia with enough of the NE monsoon left to get you to at least Sri Lanka & maybe even the Maldives (say, Feb/March, although in 2007 we motor-sailed 1/3 of the Sri Lanka-Maldives leg). And you don't want to sail to Madagascar until at least June (when the pirates seem to clear out of the Madagascar area). If you wait until July, then the SE Trades may have strengthened enough to prevent you getting to Mauritius & Reunion if such be your desire (we had 35 knots from the SSW in July 2007).

Sailing along the west coast of Madagascar is delightful, with the onshore/offshore winds switching about 10-11, am & pm. But unless you go down to the bottom of Madagascar, you can't really head down the Mozambique Channel until October or so (& watch out for sleeping whales). I can give more info if anyone's interested...
Thanks mate - Good info for nice cruising.
But, I am in New York City.
Was suggesting that heading from Phuket(or Darwin) down around CapeTown was easy.
For me - according to some cruising routes now is great time for -> NY - Gibralter - Red Sea - Indian Ocean - perfect, and easy down-wind runs - except for the Pirates...
What is the alternative????
Perhaps the old EastIndiaman route - down to Rio and then Cape Town - across the Southern Ocean and then North around Sumatra???
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