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Old 31-08-2011, 08:21   #121
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Re: Coast Guard Helping Sailboat In Distress at Ocean View In Norfolk, VA

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On another note: for all the people who keep saying that Hunter rudders fall off, note that it didn't
Yep, it was just the front fell off.
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Old 31-08-2011, 08:30   #122
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Re: Coast Guard Helping Sailboat In Distress at Ocean View In Norfolk, VA

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Thats the only bit of good to come out of this. Reinforcement of reality: Nope, none of us can beat a storm. Ever. So if we play the game like that we are far less likely to get into trouble.
It really sounds like there was a whole chain of bad choices. Sinking all your money into a 140k boat so you don't have anything left over for emergencies(he can't even make $50 bail). Attempting a time restricted move with no engine. Bad choice for an anchorage. Bad history with towing companies. Attempting to outrun the storm in the first place. Operating outside of your insurance coverage limits.
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Old 31-08-2011, 08:43   #123
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Re: Coast Guard Helping Sailboat In Distress at Ocean View In Norfolk, VA

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Yep, it was just the front fell off.
Come on now. It didn't just "fall" off it was ripped out. And the rest of the boat looks to have handled the grounding just fine.
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Old 31-08-2011, 08:53   #124
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Re: Coast Guard Helping Sailboat In Distress at Ocean View In Norfolk, VA

In response to nv51 I would like to say that I am sorry if I offended anyone. The source for his MO may be found by searching through the Virginia Court System, The Virginian Pilot and Daily Press News Papers and if you could get a log from the Coast Guard and local Police departments on the number of times they have had to respond to them, this to may help to convince others that they need not to be felt sorry for. For if a person keeps on making the same mistakes over and over it will catch up to him. He was kicked out of one marina --towed out becaused his motor didn't work -- and now it is implied that he was kicked out of another marina with his engine still not in the very good running order. Just out side of that marina is a good anchorage and as others here have said that many other achorages were aviable to him. It is sad that something like this has to happen and be a nationwide news story but hopefully in the future people will learn that mother nature is not something to mess with.
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Old 31-08-2011, 09:12   #125
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Re: Coast Guard Helping Sailboat In Distress at Ocean View In Norfolk, VA

I wonder if they tried to pull it up the beach further with those ropes,and that hole may indicate,to get it out of the surf.There was a photo of the guys passing ropes.Off Catalina a couple years back was a tragic accident when someone's boat broke free at Avalon.Someone went out in a skiff to find it,never seen again.When the coastguard were searching for him was that midair collision.I think ten lives in total.
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Old 31-08-2011, 09:32   #126
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Re: Coast Guard Helping Sailboat In Distress at Ocean View In Norfolk, VA

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Originally Posted by catman2 View Post
In response to nv51 I would like to say that I am sorry if I offended anyone. The source for his MO may be found by searching through the Virginia Court System, The Virginian Pilot and Daily Press News Papers and if you could get a log from the Coast Guard and local Police departments on the number of times they have had to respond to them, this to may help to convince others that they need not to be felt sorry for. For if a person keeps on making the same mistakes over and over it will catch up to him. He was kicked out of one marina --towed out becaused his motor didn't work -- and now it is implied that he was kicked out of another marina with his engine still not in the very good running order. Just out side of that marina is a good anchorage and as others here have said that many other achorages were aviable to him. It is sad that something like this has to happen and be a nationwide news story but hopefully in the future people will learn that mother nature is not something to mess with.
I think there's lots more to the story than has been reported in the news. Looks like this guy and his girlfriend were pretty much a nuisance to everyone they came in contact with. Mean drunks are no fun to be around, and they have no place out on the water.

I feel sorry for the boat. The owners got what they deserved. The boat did not. Hopefully it can be salvaged and find a new home with somone who will take care of her. I'd hate to see the city cut it up.
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Old 31-08-2011, 09:44   #127
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Re: Coast Guard Helping Sailboat In Distress at Ocean View In Norfolk, VA

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I think there's lots more to the story than has been reported in the news. Looks like this guy and his girlfriend were pretty much a nuisance to everyone they came in contact with. Mean drunks are no fun to be around, and they have no place out on the water.

I feel sorry for the boat. The owners got what they deserved. The boat did not. Hopefully it can be salvaged and find a new home with somone who will take care of her. I'd hate to see the city cut it up.
While true...most of society wishes that's exactly where they should be!!
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Old 31-08-2011, 09:46   #128
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Re: Coast Guard Helping Sailboat In Distress at Ocean View In Norfolk, VA

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Chain should never be "out of the bow fitting".

Anybody ever heard of chain snubbers? Nylon bridles? Retaining pins to hold the rode atop the roller?

Bill
Right-on on snubbers and nylon bridles. Anchor rollers...well, not so much.

Frankly, I think many misunderstand the function of an Anchor Roller and may be prone rely on them when they should not. The Anchor Roller is designed to ease the deployment and recovery of the anchor rhode and anchor. Not to sustain the enormous loads that are generated with a surging yacht in a seaway. The roller on the Hunter is roughly akin to the Windline AR-7 anchor roller which sports a 3/8" diameter roller pin (in fact, based upon observations of a neighbors Hunter, I think their pin may only be 1/4" diameter.). Assuming a 3/8" pin however, at an ultimate shear strength of about 46,000 psi for 316 stainless, a 3/8" pin is good for about about 5100 lbs of load. (The 1/4" pin, about 2,260#) In theory one's anchor rhode should fail before the roller pin does but the repeated shock loads of lesser magnitude can and will cause the pin in an anchor roller to fail. If so, and if the chain makes it to the fiberglass under the roller, the chain becomes a rough hack-saw easily able to "hack" its way through the hull of any yacht. (All things considered, I think the boat looks is remarkable good condition and is likely repairablble without too much cost or difficulty if she can be gotten afloat.)

The failure in this case is not that of the yacht but of the yachtsman (such as he was). By the appearance of the running gear the boat was clearly a harbor queen. Even had the engine been functional, I question whether, given the condition of the prop, the yacht could have made it very far before the engine over-heated and was/would have soon been useless. I also suspect that the owner had so little experience that he may simply not have known what to do in the event and that is, unfortunately, not uncommon for dreamers with ideas about chucking it all and sailing away. (Based upon subsequent posts to this, below, the foregoing assumption may be in error as it seems the fellow claims to have 20 years of experience "sailing" tho' I question that. On the other hand, I know a fellow in Sausalito that has been getting his Mariner 32 "ready" for a "circumnavigation" since 1976 and, other than moving from slip-to-slip and or to the haul-out, the yacht hasn't left Marina Shipyard in all that time. Yet he claims over 30 5 years of "experience" on the yacht!)

N'any case, as for the matter of Anchor Rollers, think snubbers and bridles led through proper fairleads with chafing gear to sturdy cleats and/or Sampson Posts.

FWIW...
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Old 31-08-2011, 09:55   #129
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Re: Coast Guard Helping Sailboat In Distress at Ocean View In Norfolk, VA

It sounds like Catman2 is right

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On Sunday, the couple returned to the boat to get some of their possessions, he said. They had a nice meal and relaxed, and Calabrese said he drank a couple of beers. His girlfriend returned to Bayview Recreational Center, where they were staying, he said. Calabrese tried to see her, but the employees at the rec center smelled alcohol on his breath, he said.
Court records said Calabrese was “nasty (cursing everyone) and very argumentative.”
According to court and police records, Calabrese has been charged with alcohol-related offenses several times in Hampton Roads. In 2009, Hampton police arrested him on Buckroe beach for taking a swim, naked and intoxicated, according to a public police account. Calabrese was found guilty of indecent exposure and a charge of drunk in public was dropped, court records state.
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Old 31-08-2011, 10:11   #130
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Re: Coast Guard Helping Sailboat In Distress at Ocean View In Norfolk, VA

With all this about the boat and the owners I guess what really got me going was the cat. How is and where is the cat? As you can see by my name I am a catman too. Least we forget that we are spritual souls. Yet these people do have a history accourding to my friend who had a boat in their former marina and court records. Where is the Cat?
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Old 31-08-2011, 10:15   #131
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Re: Coast Guard Helping Sailboat In Distress at Ocean View In Norfolk, VA

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Originally Posted by MarkJ View Post
Yep.
Funny fellers. Each week they did a segment on a current affairs tv show where they took one incident/news story of the week and did it as an interview with (usually) a politician.
I was tempted to post this on the Black Swan thread --
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Old 31-08-2011, 10:16   #132
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Re: Coast Guard Helping Sailboat In Distress at Ocean View In Norfolk, VA

cat needs good home. all cats do..i feel for this one.. abandoned by family after night from hell... pooor lil buddy....even if was a rescue for kat, kat still thinks was abandoned by family.
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Old 31-08-2011, 10:18   #133
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Re: Coast Guard Helping Sailboat In Distress at Ocean View In Norfolk, VA

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I can't help but note the Coast Guard did not help these people. What happened to the days when men would go out in row boats to rescue sailors in distress? Maybe now that the Coast Guard is part of the Homeland Security we need to think about getting back to a volunteer life boat service to help civilian boaters. Of course then we have to worry about being sued when helping. Just some thoughts about the state we are in. I know the Coast Guard does a fine job and most of the time will risk a lot to save a boater in distress but it does seem sometimes the rules get in the way of doing the right thing.
What ever happened to the days of personal responsibility, when people took care of themselves and didn't call 911 or mayday because they ran out of hot water?

May I humbly suggest you take a disaster preparedness course? I think you'll find it very enlightening. You'll get a good handle on your local "Good Samaritan" laws (to address being sued), as well as this nugget that I start all my classes with... "A disaster, is by definition, an event that overwhelms normal emergency response."

I work in a town of 200,000+ people, and we have 30 firefighters on duty each day. We're less than half the normal staffing for a city our size, so even if we were average we'd have 60 folks on. How thin do you think those 60 folks are going to be spread during a hurricane event? I'll defer to psneeld for the CG numbers, but I imagine their probably along the same lines (before the latest rounds of mission creep and budget cuts).

The rules aren't there to stop a responder from doing the right thing. They are there to try and set limits on people who will often hang it out *way* farther than they should because that's what they do. They're attempts to bring a modicum of safety into what is inherently an unsafe job. Or, in language I understand, "Don't bring more victims to the scene."

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Old 31-08-2011, 10:25   #134
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Re: Coast Guard Helping Sailboat In Distress at Ocean View In Norfolk, VA

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With all this about the boat and the owners I guess what really got me going was the cat. How is and where is the cat? As you can see by my name I am a catman too. Least we forget that we are spritual souls. Yet these people do have a history accourding to my friend who had a boat in their former marina and court records. Where is the Cat?
At JFK?
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Old 31-08-2011, 10:32   #135
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Re: Coast Guard Helping Sailboat In Distress at Ocean View In Norfolk, VA

no--the one from the rescued couple on th e grounded boat.
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