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Old 15-12-2009, 17:57   #121
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So if a thru-hull Split open, I wonder what the fix would be. Could you remove the whole thing (water everywhere) and stuff the hole with a plug or nerf? I could see a scenario where you would need to remove the entire thing, with just a hole in the boat remaining. Of course, if it were a larger opening, like over 1.5 inches, the water would be coming in faster than anything but a dewatering pump could handle.

Chris
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Old 15-12-2009, 17:59   #122
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My vessel is bonded and the bronze is in excellent condition (from inside and out). BUT this boat was in fresh water for the first 20 years of her life and didn't get shore power installed till last year. So, as far as bonding helping with corrosion (hopefully that was your question) I think it helps a lot. I will be able to give a full report in the spring when I haul out and remove, rebuild or replace all T-hulls.

No matter how strong they make the plastic stuff, I just cant trust it.
Erika
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Old 15-12-2009, 18:11   #123
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No matter how strong they make the plastic stuff, I just cant trust it.
Erika
I remember when i was a boy I heard that said alot about Fiberglass boats!
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Old 15-12-2009, 18:14   #124
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All my seacocks are Maleron except on the saildrive. I do wonder what their life expectancy in actual use is. It will be 8 years in Feb. I would like to know at what point I would need to start worrying. At this point all of them work freely and don't look like they're deteriorating. The only ones that are sticky are the ones on my yanmar saildrives. They are metal, probably brass from the looks. If they sit for a long time in the closed position I have to break them loose with a wrench. The handles are simple metal rods sticking out about 3/4 of an inch on each side of the screw. Once they are broken free I'm able to open them the rest of the way with my fingers.
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Old 15-12-2009, 18:22   #125
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Bonding is one of those issues that will be argued about till pigs fly lol.

ABYC says it needs to be done, and in theory it is a good practice problem is theory and salt water do not always mix. In theory if all underwater metal is at the same electrical potential it will not corrode. The problem is maintaining that electrical potential with low resistance connections. As we all know this is hard to do in a bilge.

That said you want a good electrical bond to the water to protect yourself from AC electric shock and a good bond is useful for SSB ground.

If you remove all bonding you and have AC power on board you open yourself up for serious shock hazards

My experience has been that non bonded thru hulls fair better than those within a bonded system. On my boat I use a hybrid system, I bond the engine and shaft per ABYC and have my DC and AC grounds connected as they should be. I also have a sintered bronze ground plate also connected to the DC/AC ground. This gives me protection from shock while leaving the thru hulls isolated. The draw back is any fault is now isolated to my shaft and prop 2 expensive pieces of equipment. For me the solution is careful monitoring of my AC system and checking it annually.

And it is here I will make a shameless plug for an article I wrote on maintaining and testing your shore power system. You can read it on my web site.

As for the plastic thru hulls I think they are great but once again need annual checking. I also think they work better if you use metal thru hull on plastic seacock valves. This is because I once had a plastic thru hull worn off by a log rubbing on the boat.

I also think if you have anything but a flanged seacock bolted to the hull you do not have a real seacock you just have a valve on a thru hull. I ocne looked at a boat that suffer stray currant corrosion. The thru hulls were eaten completely away but the boat did not sink because the seacocks were the flange type. Had this boat had valves on thru hulls it would have sunk no question.

OK let the fun begin lol

Wayne Canning, AMS
projectboatzen.com
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Old 15-12-2009, 18:28   #126
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I remember when i was a boy I heard that said alot about Fiberglass boats!
Ram
Funny, I was just thinking I need to get with the times..then I thought, I'll let the other guy get with the times! I want my big beefy bronze

BTW a clean break would be an ideal break. A complicated break, say a portion of the t hull at the handle, would make a bad senario much much worse. I was in a sinking vessel that was taking on water from the stuffing box. So you couldn't just plug it. Thankfully it was a rate that the pumps could keep up with,then when the pumps failed, I could keep up with a bucket...so maybe sinking is a bit of a strong description, but when your 800 miles from land...

Susan, there will come a day when that 3 am wake up remembering a horrible event will be replaced by you waking up at 3 am to do your watch..but then you realize - the passage is complete and you are safely anchored in a beautiful tropical cove. It will happen.
Erika
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Old 15-12-2009, 18:41   #127
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To clear up the order of my comment on this forum the above post is directed at forum user NOT SURE, as I am certain he is not.
Wayfarer..it is I that owes you a apology, I am not one for "forum" talk and didn't realize that it was the previous person you were referring to. Also, in my ignorance of the situation I made some rash suppositions about things that after talking to Susan were completely false. She mentioned how brave and talented the crew was. If I am not mistaken again, you were one of those on the boat that did exactly like I would have done (and more) had I been there. I do know some things about the previous owners representation of the boat that made me shy away from buying it, but never has the saying "being in the same boat" meant quite as much as hearing your heroic adventure. I damned near bought that boat, had it not been for a few things that didn't quite jib with Paul's statements about the boat's condition, I would have been the one on the port tack struggling to reach land. Congratulations for getting Lazy Jack to where you did, and for your excellent job trying to save that boat.
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Old 15-12-2009, 19:09   #128
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Captain, you are truly a gentleman's gentleman. No apologies were ever needed I assure you. I'd be proud to sail with you and many many others on this site. It is a good forum, I intend to glean wisdom from this site and hope others realize its value as well. Thank you for chatting with her... my very best.
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Old 15-12-2009, 19:36   #129
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Originally Posted by witzgall View Post
So if a thru-hull Split open, I wonder what the fix would be. Could you remove the whole thing (water everywhere) and stuff the hole with a plug or nerf? I could see a scenario where you would need to remove the entire thing, with just a hole in the boat remaining. Of course, if it were a larger opening, like over 1.5 inches, the water would be coming in faster than anything but a dewatering pump could handle.

Chris
In one case we simply hammered a wood plug into the "whaler pump" hose and clamped the plug. As you know most everything below the water should be double clamped. It may be the double clamps are there as a spare (in case you need one immediately.) In another case, we went over the side in a bosun's chair and again hammered a wood plug from the outside. What really worked for the exterior repair was Marine Tex, as most know it sets up in water. I absolutely swear by it today. Hope this helps.
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Old 15-12-2009, 22:32   #130
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Not Sure- Are you reading what you are writing? Is it just coming out wrong? cause what I am reading is you think / imply this is some kind of conspiracy. So the plan is to buy a beautiful vessel, sail off into the atlantic, have catastrophic failure, and take a helicopter ride home with possessions in a soggy plastic bag. All to collect an insurance claim, which will not cover the thousands spent in obtaining the vessel. Not Sure, I guaranty this is a loss in many ways for the owner, so these speculations are beyond fantasy, its pure stupidity, and hurtful. Oh, lets not forget your connecting it to the economic downturn, man alive.
Well said, Ocean Girl. What I would have said would have been much shorter, and ruder, so I'm glad it was you at the keyboard, and not I.
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Old 16-12-2009, 05:02   #131
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Poor Lazy Jack

Hi Guys - Here's an illuminating fact that may be relevant to the sinking of Lazy Jack. I knew Lazy Jack, and another Cheoy Lee 48. This particular boat has what I consider a design flaw. The engine is tucked way down in a narrow part of the keel in the galley area, under the floor boards. Maintenance is an absolute pain. I'm not sure, but conjecture that the cooling water">engine cooling water through hull, and the strainer, were down there somewhere, where even touching them is a pain. I even know another similar (Taiwan) boat where there was a generator installed over 2 through hulls (I think cockpit drains), and the only way to service them was to remove the generator! True. The point is, each boat has it's safety and maintenance issues, and you need to assess the seaworthiness of your boat accordingly. And maybe more importantly, I've been at this for 30 years, and of the 100 or so marine surveyors I've dealt with, maybe 2 would have found these or other serious flaws. Marine surveyors generally do not have the ability to adequately inspect an older, larger sea going vessel. Putting to sea on the word of "the best surveyor in Puerto Rico" is probably the number one mistake made by the crew of Lazy Jack.
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Old 16-12-2009, 05:08   #132
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Bonding is one of those issues that will be argued about till pigs fly ...
Michael Kasten explains many of the issues surrounding bonding, in his Metal Boat Quarterly article: “Corrosion, Zincs & Bonding”
http://www.kastenmarine.com/mbqCref.pdf
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Old 16-12-2009, 22:09   #133
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I hope this might give Susan a laugh. It is a true story.

A colleague was motoring in a fast cruising boat (steel hull) up the river from Fort Myers and hit a log at high speed. The impact tore the prop and prop shaft clean out of the boat. While his wife headed for the bank the owner rushed below, saw the inrush of water through the shaft log, grabbed a handful of Tampax and crammed them into the hole. He managed to hold them there long enough for them to expand and get solidly stuck in the shaft log, almost completely stopping the flow of water. The boat was towed back to the marina. (Larry - I remembered!).

I'm glad to see the discussion on bronze vs Marelon through hulls. I found out today that the boat we wish to buy has Marelon through hulls. I will be very interested in the comments regarding these fittings.

Thanks
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Old 16-12-2009, 23:27   #134
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Peter: I remember a discussion on them and one flaw that came up was if the handle breaks the o ring blows out and there is no way to repair the valve..and its spewing water into the boat.

This was a couple years ago now so maybe they have redesigned them I do not know.

Other then that I think they are pretty darn tough.

The thread is on another board PM me if you want the site info
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Old 17-12-2009, 00:44   #135
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My thruhulls & shaft log each are different sizes should I carry max & mini are other specific sizes.Ignorant on size requirements.Thinking of asking clerk to size but might not understand.marc
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