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Old 11-12-2009, 13:53   #61
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Not sure
I am guessing the CG and insurance are more interested in talking to the Captain rather than a owner who admits she does not know. I agree with Hud3 and she stated she was done with this discussion, lets respect that this is supposed to be a friendly place. she offered what she knew and i think that is more than most would do.

Wayne Canning, AMS
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Old 11-12-2009, 13:54   #62
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Thank you, Hud. You are wise and just. I was hoping a moderator would step in.

Susan, I would be glad to hear whatever you are willing to share and hope to learn from your experiences. I think you will find that on the whole this is a helpful, respectful, and often knowledgeable community. Sometimes there is noise on the line and you may have to filter it out, much like you would ignore static in your VHF reception...
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Old 11-12-2009, 14:00   #63
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Originally Posted by jkleins View Post
It appears that many points on the same latitude as points in northern florida (would be considered to the newspaper as "off&quot will be closer to points more northernly on the East Coast then to Florida.

Jim
Yes, except it was Coast Guard Ensign Peacock who said that the boat had earlier been boarded off Mayport, Fla., by the Cutter Harriet Lane, and not 'the newspaper'.

Hey, if you guys don't care to know what happened then I guess I don't either.
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Old 11-12-2009, 14:17   #64
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Yes, except it was Coast Guard Ensign Peacock who said that the boat had earlier been boarded off Mayport, Fla., by the Cutter Harriet Lane, and not 'the newspaper'.

Hey, if you guys don't care to know what happened then I guess I don't either.
As reported in the NEWSPAPER? Or did you speak to him personally.

Or perhaps Peacock was quoted by a spokesman who reported it to the newspaper. God only knows and I'll bet he ani't sure.

A couple of years ago a friend of mine was on a boat lost on its way to Bermuda. His report in no way aligned from what was reported in the newspaper.

I have not been involved in a lot of instances but every single time I have been able to verify a newspaper report - it was WRONG.

May we return, please, to the main and interesting topic - a true first hand experience.
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Old 11-12-2009, 14:35   #65
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Here's the (former? current?) insurer. They still have Lazy Jack listed on their 'wall of fame'.
http://www.thepegasusgroup.org/photo-gallery.html
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Old 11-12-2009, 19:46   #66
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Here's the (former? current?) insurer. They still have Lazy Jack listed on their 'wall of fame'.
Photo Gallery - Pegasus Group
I have been reading through this thread (trying to learn from others), and it seems that you almost have an ax to grind against her.

I would understand if you were maybe established on this site, but in the span of a couple months you've already logged 225 posts. Glad to see your enthusiasm, how about a little more compassion to one of our own.
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Old 11-12-2009, 20:53   #67
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Susan, I am sorry for the grilling, it is silly and very unproductive. I guess every family has their uncle harry that can be a bit... you know. Anyways, just wanted to say that I am sorry for your loss and also how impressed I am with you and your captain and crew. Being on a sinking boat in the ocean is not a fun thing (voice of experience!!), many would not want to talk about it as freely as you have. By sharing this experience with us you have helped your fellow sailors. I personally have changed my own priority of servicing my seacocks to number one, where before it was further down the "to do" list mainly because they "look" in good shape and the survey gave them the ok.
Last weekend I ran into someone at the local west marine who had a sobering story. He was working in the bilge and happen to touch one of his thruhulls and it snapped off. After he secured a plug and recovered from the shock, he check his other thru hulls and a second one also failed. I believe both seacocks failed at the hose clamp area. The first just snapped off and he said the second one crumbled as he pinched the hose (again at the hose clamp area). The owner said his thru hulls showed no signs of pitting or fatigue. I am pretty sure he said they were groco.
Your story and his has convinced me that a full removal with disassembly and rebuild is in order for all my seacocks before I take my baby offshore. Thanks again for sharing your story, I hope you are sailing again soon.
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Old 12-12-2009, 05:35   #68
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What Erica said, Seconded.

P.
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Old 12-12-2009, 06:04   #69
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This might be thread drift but I think Erika brings up so good points and the purpose of these discussions is to learn from each other. As A surveyor I always check thru hulls but I also know it can be often hard to tell the real condition from just a visual inspection. Sure I look for clues such as a pinkish color and general condition. I also operate the handle to see how freely it moves. If it does not move with an easy push I write it up. Often if it does not move the broker or owner will jump in and push it hard “see it is not frozen” they say. Fine but I will not do that unless the boat is out of the water at the time for the very reason Erika talked about. I inspect from the outside as well but sometimes you just cannot tell if the metal is eaten away from the inside out. This is called dezincification. It turns the metal to a sponge. Not always easy to see under surface corrosion. In another thread recently I talked about the useful life of thru hulls. I tend to give this about 15-20 years, After that I think it wise to replace even if everything “looks” good.
Thru hulls and hoses are not very sexy and often hard to get to. They can be expensive to replace and not a fun job. It never ceases to amaze me how many boat owners simple ignore these valuable pieces of equipment. Everyone should inspect and operate their thru hulls at least twice a year. Check the fittings hoses and clamps while you are doing it. I cannot tell you how often I write up rusted clamps and cracked hoses. This should really be a no brainer but it is amazing how so many owners will spend thousands on a new paint job but not bother to replace rusted hose clamps or service their seacocks.
Ok I will get off my soap box if you will crawl down into your bilges and check these things. I should do a poll right now asking of those who check how many can freely move the handles by hand. I bet it is less than 50%

Wayne Canning, AMS
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Old 12-12-2009, 09:45   #70
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Thank you all!

WOW! Thank you for your post. I'll never forget this! Now I know what to call these important items! SEACOCKS.
As a gift to those of you who were so wonderful to me here. Please take a moment to enjoy this link.
I had a dream and I am not giving up. I'm understanding that we "sailors" may all be dreamers in a way.
Susan

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Old 12-12-2009, 09:51   #71
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I have been reading through this thread (trying to learn from others), and it seems that you almost have an ax to grind against her.

I would understand if you were maybe established on this site, but in the span of a couple months you've already logged 225 posts. Glad to see your enthusiasm, how about a little more compassion to one of our own.
No 'ax' to grind. Other than having recently spent quite a few hours cramped up in tight spaces personally replacing all of the throughhulls and seacocks on my 'new' 30-year-old boat before I put her back in the water where I got her from (and finding many of them held together by little other than wishful thinking and powdered bedding compound), I am somewhat astounded at how many 'knowledgeable' sailors apparently completely ignore the condition of the holes in their boats literally until the water is rushing in on them. Then they apparently count on the insurance company to compensate them for their 'loss'. And people wonder why the cost of insurance is high and why so few companies want to insure boats?

It appears that sailors are their own worst enemy.
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Old 12-12-2009, 18:24   #72
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I enjoyed that Susan Thank!...That's one of the few songs I figured out on piano.

I hope your out there again soon.


Wayne..FWIW I can turn all mine with 3 fingers...here is what they look like...

Hmmm..for some reason my manage attachments button in gone???

Help..can I get a manager to Isle No# 11
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Old 12-12-2009, 20:07   #73
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<SNIP>

It appears that sailors are their own worst enemy.
This, and humans. I can agree with.
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Old 13-12-2009, 13:42   #74
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Thumbs down i saw this boat last year when it was on ebay

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Damn, wasn't this the boat that was on Ebay a few weeks back?
My friend saw Lazy Jack on Ebay while I was in St. Thomas looking for a boat.
I got to go through the boat, it was cosmetically beautiful, but there were problems that my survey friend found on it that caused me not to buy it. He found the problems with the chain plate. I have a question for the new owners....DId Paul tell you about that chain plate? because I know for a fact that he did know about it.
There were other things I felt that he was less than candid about, they I knew he knew about the boat.
I am glad nobody was hurt!
I don't want to get into the debate as to where and when they should have looked for safe harbor, but I wonder if the idea that the boat had to be delivered played a part in the decision.
I am glad I didn't shell out the $90,000 + for the boat. I ended up getting another boat that was even older, but in better shape.
Probably the insurance company, and by higher premiums you and I, will pay for the deception.
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Old 14-12-2009, 12:32   #75
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Then they apparently count on the insurance company to compensate them for their 'loss'.
Yes, I see it all now, people venture across the oceans, place their lives completely at risk, plan and wait for storms, and cagedly lose precious possessions-- all a ruse, in hopes of collecting insurance monies equal to their original expenditures.
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