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Old 22-02-2010, 10:56   #151
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Old 22-02-2010, 11:54   #152
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There's much to learn from every 'incident' for those of wanting to be safe, not sorry.
My seacocks are solid, but open. So the hoses are plugged as water forces thro the hand pumps when she's slamming. Working out why there was so much water in the stbd hull while the port was fry was at least done back at the pontoon.
I've been considering an industrial PVC replacement because I don't want to replace something that failed with the same thing.

But from Page 6? of tyhis thread
>>> PeterFlynn - I'm glad to see the discussion on bronze vs Marelon through hulls. I found out today that the boat we wish to buy has Marelon through hulls. I will be very interested in the comments regarding these fittings.<<<

Marelon is not "plastic" - it is a composite of resin and re-enforcing fibers in a way like the basic hull layup of all FRG boats. Here is a link to the manufacturers page:
Forespar: About Marelon Plumbing

It also adds:-
Through-hulls come in two major styles - one has an exterior "lip" like a nail's head that is raised away from the surface of the boats hull. The other major style is "flush/flat" head which is counter-sunk into the hull and does not offer any "raised" lip (much like a flat head screw). That raised exterior part is the weak part of a Marelon through-hull. If the boat "scrapes" along an underwater obstacle, the raised head can be sheared (chiseled) off the boat by the obstacle. Bronze is stronger in those cases. The fix for Marelon is easy - use the counter-sunk flat head version of the through-hull.

My frozen seacocks were picked up by the Surveyor but I did note that there was no indication of whether the surveyor of Lazy Jack had full access to the hull by lifting onto the hard. There are a lot of additional things that these can show from the security of rudder fixings, prop and zincs and anti-fouling status, hull damage and osmosis.
This might, perhaps, have also picked up the crack that was major in claiming the boat and so very nearly the crew.
It is too easy to critisize from the safety of the fireside, I sailed (motored) mine to it's intended berth. got away with it. My first trip in a big boat, with green crew, and since had drive failure. (Also ran aground on a charted gravel bank). No bricks from me, my dear.
Just relief that I got away with it, and that you all survived.
Lessons do tend to be harsh at sea. And once an owner you soon find the old boys in your marina who knows boats. You still have to decide which of several differing pieces of advice to go with but that's learning to be a skipper. And a skipper knows that when they start to agree it's time to take notice. From materials, to cheapest places to buy stuff and so on.
I hope your next boat is also an oldie, but maybe a CAT! I've never felt unsafe on mine, just my bank account hurts.
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Old 22-02-2010, 11:58   #153
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the stainless used in the creation of boats made in taiwan is not as good quality as that which used to be made in usa---same with the tanks used in these boats--is an excellent idea, when purchasing a taiwanese built boat to change out those and replace with good quality stainless....my formosa is a really good example if this--as are all hans christians and cheoy lee, formosa, ct, hardin..grand banks--anything built in taiwan. doesnt mean the boats are not up to par, as it were--is just a really good idea to change these inferiorly made items out when planning a passage ....they fail. as we no longer make stainless in this country we are having to suffer more failures. good luck and change it out if in doubt...
toilet seal wax is excellent in emergency situations--i have been using it for shaft log and cutlass bearing issues with good results...have to stuff it in from both sides--it will stay for a bit...should get the boat to safety....
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Old 22-02-2010, 14:50   #154
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Was the Lazy Jack Inspected by the surveyor on the hard hes!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleven View Post
There's much to learn from every 'incident' for those of wanting to be safe, not sorry.
My seacocks are solid, but open. So the hoses are plugged as water forces thro the hand pumps when she's slamming. Working out why there was so much water in the stbd hull while the port was fry was at least done back at the pontoon.
I've been considering an industrial PVC replacement because I don't want to replace something that failed with the same thing.

But from Page 6? of tyhis thread
>>> PeterFlynn - I'm glad to see the discussion on bronze vs Marelon through hulls. I found out today that the boat we wish to buy has Marelon through hulls. I will be very interested in the comments regarding these fittings.<<<

Marelon is not "plastic" - it is a composite of resin and re-enforcing fibers in a way like the basic hull layup of all FRG boats. Here is a link to the manufacturers page:
Forespar: About Marelon Plumbing

It also adds:-
Through-hulls come in two major styles - one has an exterior "lip" like a nail's head that is raised away from the surface of the boats hull. The other major style is "flush/flat" head which is counter-sunk into the hull and does not offer any "raised" lip (much like a flat head screw). That raised exterior part is the weak part of a Marelon through-hull. If the boat "scrapes" along an underwater obstacle, the raised head can be sheared (chiseled) off the boat by the obstacle. Bronze is stronger in those cases. The fix for Marelon is easy - use the counter-sunk flat head version of the through-hull.

My frozen seacocks were picked up by the Surveyor but I did note that there was no indication of whether the surveyor of Lazy Jack had full access to the hull by lifting onto the hard. There are a lot of additional things that these can show from the security of rudder fixings, prop and zincs and anti-fouling status, hull damage and osmosis.
This might, perhaps, have also picked up the crack that was major in claiming the boat and so very nearly the crew.
It is too easy to critisize from the safety of the fireside, I sailed (motored) mine to it's intended berth. got away with it. My first trip in a big boat, with green crew, and since had drive failure. (Also ran aground on a charted gravel bank). No bricks from me, my dear.
Just relief that I got away with it, and that you all survived.
Lessons do tend to be harsh at sea. And once an owner you soon find the old boys in your marina who knows boats. You still have to decide which of several differing pieces of advice to go with but that's learning to be a skipper. And a skipper knows that when they start to agree it's time to take notice. From materials, to cheapest places to buy stuff and so on.
I hope your next boat is also an oldie, but maybe a CAT! I've never felt unsafe on mine, just my bank account hurts.
Just to let you know. The Lazy Jack was inspected in the water and on the hard. We were on the hard for many days in Puerto Rico..I keep coming back to problems with my surveyor.
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Old 22-02-2010, 15:39   #155
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Zeehag,

Cheoy Lee boats are built in Hong Kong, not Taiwan.

The quality of fittings on Cheoy Lee boats varies greatly, from the sub-standard castings done locally to top-quality European and American fittings.

For some years, Cheoy Lee boats were built to Lloyds 100-A-1 standards, and were inspected and certified to be so.

Of course it is a good idea with any boat to be very picky about the underwater fittings.

Bill
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Old 22-02-2010, 16:04   #156
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Bluestocking is a Rhodes Reliant built by Cheoy Lee, launched July 1965.
I aquired this boat in 1994, put her in the shed, gutted her and did a 4 1/2 year total rebuild.
The chain plates were replaced with new 316L ones. The old ones showed very little signs of corrosion. and didn't flake when hit with a hammer. They were the originals because they were marked (like everything on the boat) with Chinese characters.
The bronze thruhulls were not surface mounted mushroom type, but thick walled square edged, let flush into the 3/4" - 1 1/4" thick solid glass below the waterline.
I changed these as a matter of course, but they really didn't need it.
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Old 22-02-2010, 16:05   #157
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Thanks Bill,
I did my research ...I love the history of the Hong Kong built Cheoy Lees. Especially the later sailing yachts. They were custom quality, from all I have seen and heard tell.
The Lloyds rating was a major factor... & I saw that when I did my research.

As an Antique dealer, I understand that the quality of vintage items remains, because of the higher standards applied as they were produced....even 30 years ago. Why are cars from around the world sold at high end auctions as collectors items? For 30 times their original value? Because they were thoughtfully produced with the finest materials available.

I will always go for a vintage product as I consider another vessel, but with the 3 highest paid surveyors my money can buy or 3 friends from this wonderful group. Hahaaaa. and boy, has this new girl learned alot here from all of you! Thank you!
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Old 22-02-2010, 18:51   #158
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Susan:

Very happy your still around the forum.

How is the insurance claim going?
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Old 22-02-2010, 19:00   #159
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well....I was unable to open the link...but considered a CL 38 years ago. I liked the design, but after close inspection I felt it was very lightly built and a lot of chopper gun was in evidence. I would put it's build at about like a bene, catalina etc without the technology behind it....
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Old 22-02-2010, 19:05   #160
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Not. No word in almost 3 months I mean nothing...watch out for the Insurance group....PEGASUS...evidently alot of the BVI / Carribean sailors use them. . Be careful what you are paying for ...everyone.They are US based in North Carolina.

Wish I could say something better. They have a lovely website.
With a homeowners they come to see damage in a week. a car. they come pick you up. With a business, they are there in 1 day. Never experienced such shoddy service.
What is it with Boat Insurance?

Thanks for asking tho' I appreciate it. Still looking to replace my Yacht. Haven't given up!
Best regards, Susan
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Old 22-02-2010, 19:32   #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
well....I was unable to open the link...but considered a CL 38 years ago. I liked the design, but after close inspection I felt it was very lightly built and a lot of chopper gun was in evidence. I would put it's build at about like a bene, catalina etc without the technology behind it....
Sure you're talking about a Cheoy Lee? What you recollect goes against everything I know about CL boats.

Yes, there are problems, amply documented. But no one, to my knowledge, has EVER accused CL of building boats "very lightly". Quite the contrary. Their hulls are generally VERY well done, solid fiberglass hand lay up. No chopper guns. And, in fact, during several visits to Cheoy Lee's yard in Lantao I never saw ANY power tool in evidence.

After hull layup...by hand....new builds were surrounded by a network of bamboo scaffolding. At any given time you might see 20-30 workers on a single boat, with hand tools, fitting equipment and joinery.

To compare the build of a CL unfavorably to a Bendy Toy or Catalina is to misrepresent them entirely. Cheoy Lees have their known problems, but light construction sure isn't one of them. They're still VERY solid boats thirty or forty or fifty years down the line.

My CL-built Perry sloop is 29 years old. In the 21 years I've owned her, I've put maybe 20K sea miles on her. Admidedly, I've spent a small fortune on upgrades and maintenance, but today she's ready as ever to go to sea....anywhere. And I don't have to worry about hull flexing fatigue or blisters (like some of the BendyToys) or about catastrophic damage if I hit a sandbar (like a friend's Catalina some $50K later).

IMHO,

Bill
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Old 22-02-2010, 19:44   #162
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Not. No word in almost 3 months I mean nothing...watch out for the Insurance group....PEGASUS...evidently alot of the BVI / Carribean sailors use them. . Be careful what you are paying for ...everyone.They are US based in North Carolina.

Wish I could say something better. They have a lovely website.
With a homeowners they come to see damage in a week. a car. they come pick you up. With a business, they are there in 1 day. Never experienced such shoddy service.
What is it with Boat Insurance?

Thanks for asking tho' I appreciate it. Still looking to replace my Yacht. Haven't given up!
Best regards, Susan
Any Lawyer on the forum that has the compassion to make a call and ruffle up some feathers for a deserving member??
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Old 22-02-2010, 19:56   #163
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Not sure, the boat I have in mind was called a Cheoy Lee XXXXX 38.... the XXXXX being the designer. It was a a pretty modern boat...80's design I think and probably a departure for CL...were there two 38's? Of course we all know the story about the Cheoy Lee that came apart at the toerail going down the pac coast.....but that was a very early boat I believe....
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Old 22-02-2010, 20:03   #164
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Question whats a chopper gun?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
well....I was unable to open the link...but considered a CL 38 years ago. I liked the design, but after close inspection I felt it was very lightly built and a lot of chopper gun was in evidence. I would put it's build at about like a bene, catalina etc without the technology behind it....
Can you clarify the terminology " Chopper gun" for me. I'm new girl.
Thanks!
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Old 22-02-2010, 21:19   #165
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Think of a spray gun that spits out short choped glass fibers and resin at the same time...sort of the "gunite" Think Swimming pool construction, of the fiberglass industry.

Wished I had one many times....But poor substitute for roving and cloth.

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