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Old 26-01-2016, 14:10   #16
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Re: Cata sank in the Caribbean on Sunday 24/01

Best I can tell it didn't sink, it floated just below the surface for two hours, probably still there :-) That's what they do.
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Old 26-01-2016, 14:11   #17
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Re: Cata sank in the Caribbean on Sunday 24/01

A few weeks back, we saw a photo of a Lagoon capsized, with bow up and the stern of the catamaran very low in the water. "Cata sinking" sounds like the same story. We used to say, the cat will always make a great raft in any situation - and it did at least keep the crew above the water. Seems we cannot say that any more. What has changed is a very important question!


A lesson here for the designers. The typical cat of 30-40 years ago, was a lightweight by comparison to todays popular models, with all the comforts of home. We designed a Suncat 40 many years ago to meet the French classification requirements. Our analysis of the fully flooded condition showed the capsize with the bridge-deck well above water level. Fully loaded, she weighed 5.5 tonnes. Motors, batteries etc., have been added and mostly aft. The rig is about twice the weight. Without adding buoyancy the ' raft' is not longer tenable.

Everyone on board should know - will she float, will she sink if flooded or capsized? ASk the designer. Cat losses are few but enough I suggest, to require more attention to safety issues.

There is a lot more that can be done, including recovery from capsize, without it costing a fortune. We have all become too complacent - us included. We have the systems but not pushed them.

Happy boating

Derek Kelsall.
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Old 26-01-2016, 14:20   #18
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Re: Cata sank in the Caribbean on Sunday 24/01

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Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post
But this cant be right

According to CF, cats dont sink

Must have been a Beneteau cat with a CQR anchor and a gun on board, crewed by global warming alarmists/deniers (take your pick), who left port without an AIS, so of course it sank!

Is Smackdaddy in the house?
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Old 26-01-2016, 14:44   #19
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Re: Cata sank in the Caribbean on Sunday 24/01

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Originally Posted by Canibul View Post
Has anyone else noticed that no matter how many times a woman will tell you they know how to operate a house or automobile thermostat...it's very rare to find one that really does know ? And you can't explain it to them, they get mad and say "I'm NOT Stupid, you know!!!" and then proceed to turn the AC control all the way to max cold, engaging the compressor full time, and the fan all the way down to minimal air flow because any more than that is too cold. For the sixty thousandth time.
Why is this? I don't understand it.

Hah, nice turnaround from 3 rescued med to blaming the women 😜
(I hate explaining the thermostat thing as well..wth!)
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Old 26-01-2016, 14:54   #20
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Re: Cata sank in the Caribbean on Sunday 24/01

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Originally Posted by Canibul View Post
Has anyone else noticed that no matter how many times a woman will tell you they know how to operate a house or automobile thermostat...it's very rare to find one that really does know ? And you can't explain it to them, they get mad and say "I'm NOT Stupid, you know!!!" and then proceed to turn the AC control all the way to max cold, engaging the compressor full time, and the fan all the way down to minimal air flow because any more than that is too cold. For the sixty thousandth time.
Why is this? I don't understand it.
....and people say there's no chauvinism in sailing... Thanks for restoring my faith in sexism
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Old 26-01-2016, 14:55   #21
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Re: Cata sank in the Caribbean on Sunday 24/01

Quote:
Originally Posted by DerekKelsall View Post
A few weeks back, we saw a photo of a Lagoon capsized, with bow up and the stern of the catamaran very low in the water. "Cata sinking" sounds like the same story. We used to say, the cat will always make a great raft in any situation - and it did at least keep the crew above the water. Seems we cannot say that any more. What has changed is a very important question!


A lesson here for the designers. The typical cat of 30-40 years ago, was a lightweight by comparison to todays popular models, with all the comforts of home. We designed a Suncat 40 many years ago to meet the French classification requirements. Our analysis of the fully flooded condition showed the capsize with the bridge-deck well above water level. Fully loaded, she weighed 5.5 tonnes. Motors, batteries etc., have been added and mostly aft. The rig is about twice the weight. Without adding buoyancy the ' raft' is not longer tenable.

Everyone on board should know - will she float, will she sink if flooded or capsized? ASk the designer. Cat losses are few but enough I suggest, to require more attention to safety issues.

There is a lot more that can be done, including recovery from capsize, without it costing a fortune. We have all become too complacent - us included. We have the systems but not pushed them.

Happy boating

Derek Kelsall.
How nice to hear an unbiased analysis by a knowledgeable person!

Thanks, Derek... makes sense to me!

Jim
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Old 26-01-2016, 14:58   #22
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Re: Cata sank in the Caribbean on Sunday 24/01

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Originally Posted by jtsailjt View Post
Must have been a Beneteau cat with a CQR anchor and a gun on board, crewed by global warming alarmists/deniers (take your pick), who left port without an AIS, so of course it sank!

Is Smackdaddy in the house?
love the response spot on
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Old 26-01-2016, 14:59   #23
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Re: Cata sank in the Caribbean on Sunday 24/01

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....and people say there's no chauvinism in sailing... Thanks for restoring my faith in sexism
His post had nothing to do with chauvinism, but yes, very sexist.
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Old 26-01-2016, 15:06   #24
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Re: Cata sank in the Caribbean on Sunday 24/01

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Originally Posted by Canibul View Post
Has anyone else noticed that no matter how many times a woman will tell you they know how to operate a house or automobile thermostat...it's very rare to find one that really does know ? And you can't explain it to them, they get mad and say "I'm NOT Stupid, you know!!!" and then proceed to turn the AC control all the way to max cold, engaging the compressor full time, and the fan all the way down to minimal air flow because any more than that is too cold. For the sixty thousandth time.
Why is this? I don't understand it.
That's perhaps a good bit over-generalized. I worked with women that were electronics engineers. I'm sure they understood feedback loops and adjunct equipment. I really do recommend that people study Myers-Briggs Type Indexing to understand people. I've been at that for a few years now and it still amazes me to know how way differently people's brains prefer to be wired. Some aren't wired at all too, some have been damaged and rewired... the worst of the lot has no feelings wired in at all, the stupidest of the lot have no thinking wired in at all, the spectrum is way bigger than I ever presumed back when I thought everybody must be thinking like I am.
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Old 26-01-2016, 15:08   #25
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Re: Cata sank in the Caribbean on Sunday 24/01

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Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post
His post had nothing to do with chauvinism, but yes, very sexist.
From Merriam-Webster:

"Full Definition of chauvinism
1: excessive or blind patriotism — compare jingoism
2: undue partiality or attachment to a group or place to which one belongs or has belonged
3: an attitude of superiority toward members of the opposite sex; also : behavior expressive of such an attitude


Yep, the remark was textbook chauvinism.
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Old 26-01-2016, 16:10   #26
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Re: Cata sank in the Caribbean on Sunday 24/01

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Originally Posted by akprb View Post
Best I can tell it didn't sink, it floated just below the surface for two hours, probably still there :-) That's what they do.
Brave words from a man with a Hunter😆
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Old 26-01-2016, 17:45   #27
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Re: Cata sank in the Caribbean on Sunday 24/01

The most intelligent women I have known were the most liberated--they lived their lives and were never wooed by the PC feminist claptrap that has suffocated our contemporary world. They were bright, educated, self-assured and lived life with a quiet peace of a person happy with their life. They loved men. They loved women. They made no excuses and approached life from a human perspective--not a male or female one. The language of AD28 and Max is very tiresome and boring to those of us who have gone beyond the tired cultural distinctions created in the dead and dying universities of our world and in the namby pamby tearooms that seek to silence free and open thought among humans. They seek to live in a world that is controlled and stifled where freedom of expression is disdained for a Maoist/Stalinist mind control. You ,who think in this fashion, do not intimidate people of true education and intelligence. You merely denigrate the free flow of ideas in your tightly regulated and constrained world. You wear your politics on your sleeves. Perhaps one day, you might see the error of your ways. Perhaps, not. However, those who are truly liberated have gone beyond this sad game and live life freely. Good luck and good sailing. Captain Rognvald--lover of women and free speech.
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Old 27-01-2016, 04:14   #28
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Re: Cata sank in the Caribbean on Sunday 24/01

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Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post
But this cant be right

According to CF, cats dont sink

As far as the tread goes, it was partly submerged when the crew was picked up, not sunk as per the tread title. Maybe the crew built the cat themselves?! With the skills presented by those onboard when contacted by the rescue services, any wonder...

A professionally built cat do not normally sink unless you experience a raging fire. The total weigth of the cat should be less than the bouyance, hence will will not sink.

Happy lead free sailing from Lucky
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Old 27-01-2016, 06:25   #29
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Re: Cata sank in the Caribbean on Sunday 24/01

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Originally Posted by Lucky View Post
As far as the tread goes, it was partly submerged when the crew was picked up, not sunk as per the tread title. Maybe the crew built the cat themselves?! With the skills presented by those onboard when contacted by the rescue services, any wonder...



A professionally built cat do not normally sink unless you experience a raging fire. The total weigth of the cat should be less than the bouyance, hence will will not sink.



Happy lead free sailing from Lucky

A bit harsh on the crew. It's likely any electronics were flooded prior to calling for help. The big black rock may have been the best way to pinpoint their location.
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Old 27-01-2016, 07:59   #30
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Re: Cata sank in the Caribbean on Sunday 24/01

Cats shure sink when loaded with proper cruising gear.

This is exactly how you know which boat is sailing and which is cruising.

The genset, the fridges, the davits, the plazmas, the stereo, the six rocna anchors, the girl from Rongvald's post - they all add up to how the story ends.

Indeed silly not to know your position: very common with boats where there is a 27'' plotter but no handheld backup. The boat goes down, with your GPS ;-)

b.
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