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Old 05-05-2014, 10:32   #76
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Re: captain's log, april 30, 2014 from the Rebel Heart Blog

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As a young physician in training, I was filled with a burning desire to change the world. 5 years on, and having worked with wiser experienced men and women, I came to understand a few immutable principles for living a life. And as an older physician now, the principles hold good.
  • Every single person is entitled to respect. This means, as a friend, a parent, a spouse and as a stranger. We have to respect every one enough to let them live their own life. To make their own path, and to let them succeed or fail on their own terms.
  • We need to be in FULL possession of ALL the facts before we can assess ANY situation.
  • When an event happens, and its not a good outcome, we need to ask ourself, "Is it my job to fix this?"
  • We need to see what help, if any, can be rendered in practical terms for people, if required to ensure they have lots of space to recover and regroup and regain heath or balance.
  • We need to ask ourselves a number of questions privately, "What can I learn from this episode if I am faced with a similar situation?"
  • "Would I have taken the route that was taken to arrive at the situation before me now?"
  • Am I allowing personal, religious or that inner set of rules (that we all have), or the outcome itself to influence my analysis of the situation?
There appears to be a lot of rancour regarding this situation. It would appear some C.F'ers have issue with the personality of the man. Some have issue with decisions made regarding his wife and children, and some have issues with post scenario handling of money.

Life law: We need to be in FULL possession of ALL the facts before we can assess ANY situation.

Even without all the facts, we are faced with the other life Principles to consider:

The journey is over, the vessel is no more, and life has forever changed for this family.


It is not our job to fix this.

Ours is to reflect on the situation and decide for ourselves whether we would have, firstly undertaken the journey, and secondly, what bits we would have done differently. We have the unique perspective of being observers and learning without the pain of experiencing results of choices and circumstances.

Reality is that there is NOTHING we can do. President Kennedy was shot. World wars happened, our parents died, the Titanic sank, and Rebel Hearts journey concluded when it did in the manner it did as a culmination of all things that led to it.

We cannot change a thing. It happened.

Eric cant change what happened, because he would if he could. And all the people irritated or morally outraged that he took his children with him, cant change a thing. All the people aggravated at his personality and attitude who feel a sense of karma in this, well thats ok too, he that lives by the sword dies by the sword, but......... thats a different issue to the CHOICE you would have made in preparing for this trip, and that is all that matters.

We get one go at this life thing. Some of us approach it quietly and some announce it on the Radio.

We are owed nothing by Rebel Heart.

The C.F. community, comprises of all sorts of people who write for a variety of reasons, and if they trumpet and blow, and then the quiet descends, well that is all there is. We are not Erics Mom or Pop or someone owed money, we are just associates, we are not even real friends REGARDLESS of what you think. He has other things to work out and needs to find the best path to live with himself and continue this life.

There is also the 50-50-90 rule: anytime you have a 50-50 chance of getting something right, there's a 90% probability you'll get it wrong. There is no starting over, you just have to live with the mistakes you have made, and that what you consider mistakes are not what others might.

It would be nice if at some stage, the crew of Rebel Heart tell their story. But you know what? It wont matter to some people. There will be no change in their view or positional stance. It will only inflame them more to convince the world that they are correct in their assessment of everything that happened. And truth is, they might have parts of it right, maybe all of it, and it doesn’t change a thing to what has happened. It can only change what we do in our lives.
Over the course of my lifetime, I've read hundreds of thousands of posts, possibly over a million. This is, by far, the most wisdom filled post I've ever read. I've seen shorter posts that made an excellent point, but this post made a number of excellent points all along.

Very well done!!
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Old 05-05-2014, 11:21   #77
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Re: Captain's Log, April 30, 2014 from the Rebel Heart Blog

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It will be an autopsy.
Of that, I have absolutely no doubt.
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Old 05-05-2014, 12:26   #78
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Re: Captain's Log, April 30, 2014 from the Rebel Heart Blog

As Prairie Chicken mentioned, there will be an interview with Eric and Charlotte on This American Life next week. (I listened to this weeks podcast this morning and they blurb'd that it was next weeks subject matter)

Seeking Outside Help | This American Life

I think that RH's decision to grant This American Life an interview to be very shrewd. The show does very deep dives into whatever the subject of the week is- it's never soundbite journalism. It's never "gotcha" stuff - it's always a very thoughtful examination. And it takes it's time. I don't know if the RH story will be the whole hour, but I'm sure that it'll be a large chunk of time.

Therefore, I expect that much more of the actual facts will become known next week.

For those that aren't NPR junkies like me, you can check out some of the best TAL episodes: Favorites | This American Life

(I don't work for TAL or NPR - just a fan)
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Old 05-05-2014, 13:03   #79
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Re: Captain's Log, April 30, 2014 from the Rebel Heart Blog

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Originally Posted by jeepbluetj View Post
As Prairie Chicken mentioned, there will be an interview with Eric and Charlotte on This American Life next week. (I listened to this weeks podcast this morning and they blurb'd that it was next weeks subject matter)

Seeking Outside Help | This American Life

I think that RH's decision to grant This American Life an interview to be very shrewd. The show does very deep dives into whatever the subject of the week is- it's never soundbite journalism. It's never "gotcha" stuff - it's always a very thoughtful examination. And it takes it's time. I don't know if the RH story will be the whole hour, but I'm sure that it'll be a large chunk of time.

Therefore, I expect that much more of the actual facts will become known next week.

For those that aren't NPR junkies like me, you can check out some of the best TAL episodes: Favorites | This American Life

(I don't work for TAL or NPR - just a fan)
I agree that NPR will be an excellent forum for going public. I'm sure they don't pay well (or at all), though. Too bad, really. They could use the money.
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Old 05-05-2014, 14:38   #80
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Re: Captain's Log, April 30, 2014 from the Rebel Heart Blog

This is good news. I began following the RH blog before the trip and this forum since it started. I've been anxious for a RH response with more information and understood that it needed to happen according to their time. "This American Life" has a good reputation with me of looking at stories from the balcony view. They will control the message and RH is trusting to let them take it over.

Like so many of us, I am not looking for someone to blame or attack, but want to know more so we can learn lessons from the painful experiences. It is a post mortem -- always really about the next event, not the last.
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Old 05-05-2014, 15:11   #81
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Re: Captain's Log, April 30, 2014 from the Rebel Heart Blog

Oh you guys! Weavis has done very well here on CF under standard conditions of adversity. Now you have praised him so much that instead of Weavis we will have Elvis.
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Old 05-05-2014, 16:03   #82
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Re: Captain's Log, April 30, 2014 from the Rebel Heart Blog

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I agree that NPR will be an excellent forum for going public.
Well I'm keeping my expectations low for the broadcast. I expect it will explore more the relationship/expectations of Eric and his wife on the journey. Possible rehashing some of their blog posts. I don't expect there to be much detail about the boat and what happened to it. I imagine the Ira Glasser intro will go: "A boat began to leak, a child became sick and a decision had to be made..." Should be better than a five minute morning show interview though but, still not the detail that some here might be expecting.
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Old 05-05-2014, 19:36   #83
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Re: Captain's Log, April 30, 2014 from the Rebel Heart Blog

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I think both posters miss the point.
More facts ARE available in this case. They just have not been 'made' available yet.
Judgements are being made on personal opinion. I think most people are aware of the public reaction to certain aspects of this case.

Assessment CANNOT be made fully until ALL the particulars are on the table. Speculation and hearsay are a waste of time.

I remember one particular nasty incident I had with a lawyer.

"My clients mother has died, why is she dead?"

Me. "I dont know"

Him....... But you are a Dr! Why dont you know?! Surely you know something about this?!!"

Me. "Yes. I know Mrs xxx is dead,

Him......."You are being evasive!

Me... "No, why she is dead I have no clue. I prefer to leave the assessment based on sound medical and proven facts to the pathologist.

Him..."But you were treating her!!"

Me..... "I was part of a medical team following known protocol and proven medical procedures. Its not a guarantee for a succeful outcome in every circumstance. It is however the best available."

Him... "I want you to give a best guesstimate of why she died"

Me....."I dont want to waste my time or yours doing that. Firstly, I might well be wrong and secondly, you have no clue what do with the information I give you because you are not qualifed to assess it competently. I prefer to be sure."

Him....."but the patient is dead under your care!!!"

Me ......" we are both agreed that the patient is dead. The patient is not under my care because of that fact. The pathologist will determine why the patient could not remain under my care."

In the event, there was an underlying health condition unknown, undocumented and not detectable in any test she had ever had.

Im a firm believer that in medicine the two most revealing tests done are scans and autopsies.

So..... rather than split hairs over opinion here........ I will wait for comments from Rebel Heart to be placed on the dissection board for analysis if you dont mind.

It will be an autopsy.
Thank you very much Weavis. Two outstanding posts in one thread. Good on ya!

Ann
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Old 05-05-2014, 22:26   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbianka View Post

Well I'm keeping my expectations low for the broadcast. I expect it will explore more the relationship/expectations of Eric and his wife on the journey. Possible rehashing some of their blog posts. I don't expect there to be much detail about the boat and what happened to it. I imagine the Ira Glasser intro will go: "A boat began to leak, a child became sick and a decision had to be made..." Should be better than a five minute morning show interview though but, still not the detail that some here might be expecting.
Of course. The show is for the general public, not for us
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Old 06-05-2014, 00:47   #85
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Re: Captain's Log, April 30, 2014 from the Rebel Heart Blog

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Of course. The show is for the general public, not for us
Yeah, but (which used to get me corrected by my Dad), so yeah, but we are the public, too. So maybe it's for us, too, but not what we want. I thought weavis was pretty clear. We want the autopsy, and it is Eric and Charlotte who may, or may not, produce it in their own good time. I hope they come back.

Ann
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Old 06-05-2014, 05:14   #86
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Re: Captain's Log, April 30, 2014 from the Rebel Heart Blog

We're see which "general public" the interviewer is from because during the rescue the reporters seemed mostly interested in ripping them apart.
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Old 06-05-2014, 08:10   #87
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Re: captain's log, april 30, 2014 from the Rebel Heart Blog

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I care.

No one learns anything if he stays mum.

You was vibrant in this forum, including having a strong opinion as to whats right and wrong. And now he just snivels his way out of his responsibility to educate others! Get a grip Phil! Eric meeds to front up the facts. You would... And have done, without wondering if you would be criticised or not.



Mark
I agree with this rather than the blatant apologists squashing all vigorous debate, calling anyone with a differing opinion a jackass etc. I'm sure this approach has turned off a whole horde of people who are more interested in fixing a future problem than fixing the blame.

Rebel Heart is likely not going to say anything that is potentially damaging to his Captain's License, he will be lucky to maintain his license as it is especially since it was part of his revenue stream. His personality type (as evidenced by his postings) is not the type to further humiliate himself by going into great detail about what worked or didn't work. And if he gave his account, must we assume that it would be factual anyway?

Some have said (over and over and over and over and over) that we need to have all the facts to make a judgment about making a similar trip under similar circumstances (with or without kids, sailing experience, adequacy of preparation, when to pull the Spot trigger, how to prepare for potential medical urgencies and emergencies etc.) That is just ridiculous in my opinion and I am sure there are legions of others that are just afraid to say so because of the crap storm aimed at everyone who challenges the party line on CF. Even a doctor chimed in and quoted a bunch of politically correct life principles and implied no one should even discuss this without ALL the facts. I guess training in the UK must be different than the US, because US Medical Schools emphasize learning to problem solve and react to a situation without all the facts, which is almost always the situation in medicine.

I totally agree that it is inappropriate to further beat up on Rebel Heart, he has suffered enough consequences already for any perceived shortcomings in his preparation, personality or decision making. But there is little gained by waiting and waiting for more information (which seems only designed to take the heat off Rebel Heart) and much lost by not taking the opportunity (while there is lots of interest) to analyze various scenarios aimed at improving safety at sea and improving the experience of sailing for families and especially for children. Moreover, it is extremely important for all of us to consider how to minimize the number of government interventions ie SAR operations to protect our current freedoms.
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Old 06-05-2014, 08:43   #88
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pirate Re: Captain's Log, April 30, 2014 from the Rebel Heart Blog

Yup!
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Old 06-05-2014, 08:56   #89
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Re: Captain's Log, April 30, 2014 from the Rebel Heart Blog

Just a couple of points:

- We spent 2 & 1/2 hours on the phone with This American Life, 3 & 1/2 if you count the preliminary which was just to establish the basic framework of what happened.

- It coincidentally took a little over two hours to fully debrief with the 129th Air Rescue Squadron, and those were with guys that were in the SAR command center getting updates directly from the team on our vessel.

For everyone looking for "the autopsy", keep in mind that you're asking for a large quantity of information, or you're kidding yourself. There were a lot of factors and decisions that had to be made spanning weeks of time. It goes into pediatrics, weather, boat damage, and chains of decisions. Boiling that down to even a few pages would be a gross over simplification.

I have no idea how much of what we said will end up in This American Life interview. We answered everything they asked, provide more info where we thought it would help, and it's up to them to edit it, produce it, air it, or discard it. We picked them because all the mother media outlets (particularly ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX, and CNN) were on us before we stepped foot on dry land and seemed more entertainment focused than caring about journalism.

I've spent many hours in the cockpit underway listening to This American Life podcasts, and maybe they'll do a great job or maybe they won't, but either way we needed to trust someone with our first interview and Ira Glass seemed like the obvious choice.

People have approached us with "deals" related to print and display media, and we've turned them all down flat. I've written a small book before and Charlotte writes regularly for a magazine, so the reality is that we write all the time anyway. We already had been writing random chapters of our sailing life before the loss of our boat.

Plus, if you really want an autopsy that spans the events and decision making process of an offshore voyage ending up in the scuttling of a boat and a rather involved rescue, it's just a lot of damn material to relate. I'm not sure how much clearer I can make that. There was no "the boat had x, my kid had y, so we did z": I wish it was that simple.

To really get into any of it, without getting into all of it, is just inviting the soundbite media culture and takes everything out of context. That's a reason we probably will write a book about it, and that's why we've opted for a rather long-format interview.

And personally I do think I owe the maritime world some answers. Whenever I hear a pan pan or distress call otherwise I take it very seriously. I've been a volunteer firefighter, served in the Navy myself, volunteered for terrestrial SAR efforts, and do think that the open flow of information concerning rescues is of value to those who work in response and those who might one day be in a similar situation.

When I studied for my divemaster course I read through a book that was all about diving accidents; it was a catalog of dozens of fatal or near-fatal diving accidents and went through looking at causes. That book, and other rescue training, was a large part of my decision making process. So I genuinely think that our story, in all its gory detail, needs to be out there as well so people can read it, analyze it, poke holes in it, and learn from it.

Taking it a step further, as a guy who reads Foreign Affairs and has just gone through a "media cycle" myself, I really have no interest in providing entertainment content. If someone really wants to know what happened to us, they'll take the time. They'll listen to a long interview, and they'll pay for a book that costs the same as a mediocre craft beer. And of course hit me up directly for a free copy anyway when we finally do write something.
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Old 06-05-2014, 09:09   #90
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Re: Captain's Log, April 30, 2014 from the Rebel Heart Blog

Welcome back Eric! My best to you, Charlotte and the girls.

Robyn
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