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Old 02-06-2014, 06:11   #211
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Re: Captain's Log, April 30, 2014 from the Rebel Heart Blog

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Well in the interview he said that he had a substantial leak that came through and shorted the SSB. Pretty sure that's not supposed to happen, and nothing I've read said that they went through a storm of any significance, just that they had some rough seas, heavier weather, and got knocked around a bit. If that's the case and they still developed the leak, then it's a symptom of bad preparation, which I would call a "maritime cockup". I think that trying to sail across the Pacific without having a significant offshore voyage under your belt with your family and your home is irresponsible. Coastal cruising is one thing, but I don't think they did any multi-night passages before they left, at least not any with 2 kids.
OMG, I hope someone else can contribute something more 'maritime cockup' than this? Seriously, boat developed a leak therefor bad prep?
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Old 02-06-2014, 06:17   #212
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Re: Captain's Log, April 30, 2014 from the Rebel Heart Blog

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OMG, I hope someone else can contribute something more 'maritime cockup' than this? Seriously, boat developed a leak therefor bad prep?
Yes that's bad prep. From what I've read it sounds like the boat developed the leak in perfectly normal, average sailing conditions. That's not supposed to happen if a boat has been properly maintained and cared for.

My second assertion in my above post was that going on such a long trip without having a multi-night shakedown cruise with 2 kids was also a "maritime cockup". Maybe I should've been more clear so that you could have understood me.
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Old 02-06-2014, 06:21   #213
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Re: Captain's Log, April 30, 2014 from the Rebel Heart Blog

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Well in the interview he said that he had a substantial leak that came through and shorted the SSB. Pretty sure that's not supposed to happen, and nothing I've read said that they went through a storm of any significance, just that they had some rough seas, heavier weather, and got knocked around a bit. If that's the case and they still developed the leak, then it's a symptom of bad preparation, which I would call a "maritime cockup". I think that trying to sail across the Pacific without having a significant offshore voyage under your belt with your family and your home is irresponsible. Coastal cruising is one thing, but I don't think they did any multi-night passages before they left, at least not any with 2 kids.
Pretty much sums up my feelings on what is known.
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Old 02-06-2014, 06:22   #214
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pirate Re: Captain's Log, April 30, 2014 from the Rebel Heart Blog

[QUOTE=tedsherrin;1554773]I've spent the time to go over the posts and on the other closed thread. I'm curious to know 'what maritime cockups' do you believe they made? And please don't respond with the ages of the children, that's hardly 'maritime'.[/QUOTE]

Bollocks to the statement in RED... if you want to know I'm a strong proponent for cruising with kids and have many friends who do.. and the kids are awesome.. but then you'd have to post that to stir the $hit.. wouldn't you..

Maritime cock-ups were poor passage planning re departure point..
Poor weather research/assessment.. re prevailing winds/currents..
What sounds like poor seamanship/sailhandling.. like lashing the boom right out on a broad reach.. I'd have sheeted it in to spill wind into the genny.. or even more likely dropped and running under genoa only.. not have it right out the encouraging a broach.. may be fine for settled coastal waters but not out there in cross sea's..
Spending to much time below and not seeing to the boat.. if the mate is incapable heave to and tend to things till she recovers and takes over the kids again.. else all you achieve is to endanger everyone on board..
The boat was not up to the trip.. things had been bodged by all accounts and wet is very depressing for weeks on end.. been there done that.. they have/had not.. however I reckon they believed the 'Milk Run' stories from the less than honest 'Ones who'd gone before' and figured it was good enough..
I also believe they sailed to soon.. took on more than they could chew so to speak.. coast hopping is one thing.. yes its stressful.. but the 'ALONE' of the open ocean is something else.. it needs building up to in steps.. no easy nearby (less than 100nm) place to run to when your queasy..

PS: and.. if the baby was being rolled all over the place in a poorly/zero prepared sleeping space I'm not surprised she developed a bludi fever... another thing that demonstrates their lack of understanding and preparedness for Ocean Passage making..
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Old 02-06-2014, 06:25   #215
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Re: Captain's Log, April 30, 2014 from the Rebel Heart Blog

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From what I've read it sounds like the boat developed the leak in perfectly normal, average sailing conditions.
And from what I read it was a known issue prior to departure.
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Old 02-06-2014, 06:26   #216
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Re: Captain's Log, April 30, 2014 from the Rebel Heart Blog

[QUOTE=boatman61;1554795]
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Originally Posted by tedsherrin View Post
I've spent the time to go over the posts and on the other closed thread. I'm curious to know 'what maritime cockups' do you believe they made? And please don't respond with the ages of the children, that's hardly 'maritime'.[/QUOTE]

Bollocks to the statement in RED... if you want to know I'm a strong proponent for cruising with kids and have many friends who do.. and the kids are awesome.. but then you'd have to post that to stir the $hit.. wouldn't you..

Maritime cock-ups were poor passage planning re departure point..
Poor weather research/assessment.. re prevailing winds/currents..
What sounds like poor seamanship/sailhandling.. like lashing the boom right out on a broad reach.. I'd have sheeted it in to spill wind into the genny.. or even more likely dropped and running under genoa only.. not have it right out the encouraging a broach.. may be fine for settled coastal waters but not out there in cross sea's..
Spending to much time below and not seeing to the boat.. if the mate is incapable heave to and tend to things till she recovers and takes over the kids again.. else all you achieve is endanger everyone on board..
The boat was not up to the trip.. things had been bodged by all accounts and wet is very depressing for weeks on end.. been there done that.. they had not.. however I reckon they believed the 'Milk Run' stories from the less than honest 'Ones who'd gone before' and figured it was good enough..
I also believe they sailed to soon.. took on more than they could chew so to speak.. coast hopping is one thing.. yes its stressful.. but the 'ALONE' of the open ocean is something else.. it needs building up to in steps.. no easy nearby (less than 100nm) place to run to when your queasy..
Yup. I've got a ton of sailing experience, but most of it is inshore, round the buoys, with a couple of distance races, and there's no way in hell I would try to do a sail like that without having multiple shakedown cruises in the boat with the crew I'd be taking with me.
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Old 02-06-2014, 06:36   #217
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Re: Captain's Log, April 30, 2014 from the Rebel Heart Blog

More good points boatman 61. I am also curious why nobody was at the helm if the conditions were so dicey.
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Old 02-06-2014, 09:41   #218
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Re: Captain's Log, April 30, 2014 from the Rebel Heart Blog

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But if you want to sit around and talk about my wife's attitude in an article...
My point, while maybe not articulately stated, was that one can very easily advocate a cruising lifestyle while realizing that others who don't choose that path are also making valid choices. People raising their kids in more traditional ways are also making rational choices, and aren't necessarily living lives of quiet desperation, though certainly some are.

I certainly don't want to be adding to any friction, though, so I'll try and do a better self-review before posting. I'm more interested in the cruising preparation and sailing aspects of this, and still have some unanswered questions, so I'll try and put pull together a coherent set.
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Old 02-06-2014, 09:52   #219
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Re: Captain's Log, April 30, 2014 from the Rebel Heart Blog

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My point, while maybe not articulately stated, was that one can very easily advocate a cruising lifestyle while realizing that others who don't choose that path are also making valid choices. People raising their kids in more traditional ways are also making rational choices, and aren't necessarily living lives of quiet desperation, though certainly some are.

I certainly don't want to be adding to any friction, though, so I'll try and do a better self-review before posting. I'm more interested in the cruising preparation and sailing aspects of this, and still have some unanswered questions, so I'll try and put pull together a coherent set.
I can't channel my wife; she's her own person and can write however she likes. We actually encourage each other to write whatever we want, generally the only editing we do for each other is spelling and grammar.

Further, she was asked specifically to address her critics. I don't know if you've ever gotten death wishes for you and your family on the regular, but perhaps you can give her an ounce of slack when addressing those people. Getting blasted by Internet trolls around the country for two months can you leave even the nicest of us wanting to throw a verbal punch.

That's as much as I'd like to comment on my wife and her writing; she has her own thoughts and her own mind and I'm doing a disservice by explaining her position.
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Old 02-06-2014, 09:57   #220
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Re: Captain's Log, April 30, 2014 from the Rebel Heart Blog

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Further, she was asked specifically to address her critics.
That is important context. I had assumed that a regular writer was just asked to right a follow up piece and that Charlotte was still so overwhelmed by the critics that she lashed out, versus specifically being asked to address those critics.
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Old 02-06-2014, 10:51   #221
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Re: Captain's Log, April 30, 2014 from the Rebel Heart Blog

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I can't channel my wife; she's her own person and can write however she likes. We actually encourage each other to write whatever we want, generally the only editing we do for each other is spelling and grammar.
Cheers to that, and nobody envies dealing with the press under the circumstances that you guys had to face.
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Old 02-06-2014, 12:18   #222
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Re: Captain's Log, April 30, 2014 from the Rebel Heart Blog

maybe it is time to move on as I don't think there is anything additional to really learn other than continued blood letting

While I'm not a supporter if I were Eric I would be adding to my list
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Old 02-06-2014, 16:25   #223
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Re: Captain's Log, April 30, 2014 from the Rebel Heart Blog

It seems to me that those haters have actually succumbed to what we Australian's a very prone to, its called 'tall poppy syndrome'. It's a syndrome that whenever someone does something, good or bad, we have to 'attack' it, knock it, and pretend we are better than that person.

I asked what the 'maritime cockups' were, and I get back essentially differences in sailing and seamanship decisions. One of you claim weather failure and then another claims it was common routine sailing conditions to justify your criticism, well which was it, common sailing weather or significantly bad weather they 'cocked up'? And of course their sailing 'experience' was criticised. It's very clear they were not amateurs, out on their first ever sail, which means their decision to go extended off shore wasn't a maritime 'cock up' but a reflective choice. Sooner or later every sailor needs to decide for themselves what their limitations are and whether they are ready for an extended sail. That's not a 'maritime cock up'! That is what sailing and world cruising is about.

The only sensible criticism that has been raised, is whether the vessel was 'sea worthy' or not. One has 'read' that it was exceptionally unseaworthy prior to the trip? No idea where you read this other than the tabloids and accusations of haters on here, but fair enough if the vessel was unseaworthy then it is a 'maritime cock up'. To suggest it was unseaworthy because it sprung a minor leak however is not an indication that it was in such a state, and from what the rescuers and Eric have said publicly, it was not a major leak, but quite manageable. But, if their is some evidence available, anywhere, that suggests the vessel was in a poor condition and unseaworthy prior to the trip, by all means I'm listening. As for 'bogging it', OMG, boats should not be 'bogged'! I wonder what the product is for then.

I think for me, I like Cruising Forum, but from now on I'll stick to the non Armchair threads, like the practical threads where people are sharing experiences and ideas and story's and stay clear of these 'armchair' threads that seem to tease out Tall Poppy Syndrome types. It's just a tad 'above' my intellectual level!
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Old 02-06-2014, 16:48   #224
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pirate Re: Captain's Log, April 30, 2014 from the Rebel Heart Blog

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... Sooner or later every sailor needs to decide for themselves what their limitations are ... It's just a tad 'above' my intellectual level!
Maybe so, Ted.

A man's gotta do what a man's gotta do.

Eric doesn't need any defensive help from the peanut gallery anyway. A twist of fate, he's a hero.

As unpleasant as all this is, one of the worst fallouts has been the bickering among forum members ... all with the exact same information. Some see the effort as first rate, others do not. You asked for an example of potentially poor seamanship, you got a couple but they didn't suit ya. I'm guessing nothing would.

Let's let it go mate. Ya wanta stick to the nuts and bolts threads, goodonya. As they say in Nikeland: "Just do it." These parting shots are unseemly in my view.
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Old 02-06-2014, 16:50   #225
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pirate Re: Captain's Log, April 30, 2014 from the Rebel Heart Blog

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Originally Posted by tedsherrin View Post
It seems to me that those haters have actually succumbed to what we Australian's a very prone to, its called 'tall poppy syndrome'. It's a syndrome that whenever someone does something, good or bad, we have to 'attack' it, knock it, and pretend we are better than that person.

I asked what the 'maritime cockups' were, and I get back essentially differences in sailing and seamanship decisions. One of you claim weather failure and then another claims it was common routine sailing conditions to justify your criticism, well which was it, common sailing weather or significantly bad weather they 'cocked up'? And of course their sailing 'experience' was criticised. It's very clear they were not amateurs, out on their first ever sail, which means their decision to go extended off shore wasn't a maritime 'cock up' but a reflective choice. Sooner or later every sailor needs to decide for themselves what their limitations are and whether they are ready for an extended sail. That's not a 'maritime cock up'! That is what sailing and world cruising is about.

The only sensible criticism that has been raised, is whether the vessel was 'sea worthy' or not. One has 'read' that it was exceptionally unseaworthy prior to the trip? No idea where you read this other than the tabloids and accusations of haters on here, but fair enough if the vessel was unseaworthy then it is a 'maritime cock up'. To suggest it was unseaworthy because it sprung a minor leak however is not an indication that it was in such a state, and from what the rescuers and Eric have said publicly, it was not a major leak, but quite manageable. But, if their is some evidence available, anywhere, that suggests the vessel was in a poor condition and unseaworthy prior to the trip, by all means I'm listening. As for 'bogging it', OMG, boats should not be 'bogged'! I wonder what the product is for then.

I think for me, I like Cruising Forum, but from now on I'll stick to the non Armchair threads, like the practical threads where people are sharing experiences and ideas and story's and stay clear of these 'armchair' threads that seem to tease out Tall Poppy Syndrome types. It's just a tad 'above' my intellectual level!
Naah,,, I'll bow out to your superior knowledge and sit back in my armchair.. and admire your ability to stay outa threads and troll at the same time..


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