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Old 10-06-2009, 12:54   #16
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There are no specific funeral statutes, at this time, concerning disposition of cremated remains by the public, off the inshore coast or inland waters of Florida.

Burial in inshore (< 3nm off) & inland waters are regulated according to the Clean Water Act. For inland waters burial, a permit is required from the appropriate state agency.
In Florida, NO permit is required.
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Old 10-06-2009, 13:17   #17
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Because everything I did wrong as a kid I got caught for! It would really piss me off if by chance I was caught, cuffed, and penalized, so I am asking. It will most likely be off my boat, because the man said it was the best sail he ever had, and my boat will accommodate a lot of people. You asked so there's my frikking answer, and thanks to the rest of you with your help........i2f
I2f:
My personal reaction is two-fold:
(A) Firstly you are not a kid anymore, why be shackled by childhood fears?
(B) There are realities to the situation, effectively articulated by TJ's post above, which suggest you are simply being prudent and thinking this matter through as is appropriate.

Each of us is unique, yet all have some of both (A) and (B) that would impact our individual decision one way or the other. I hope GM's assessment is correct (i.e. it is not illegal) and your quandry is easily resolved.

William aka 'The PIRATE'
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Old 10-06-2009, 13:27   #18
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Nothing but great common sense here -- a CF consensus! Do it, and scr*w the rules. And the environmental impact of a few grams of tooth fillings, for God's sake.

I for one am sorry about your loss. Mortality is the hardest thing about life to accept.
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Old 10-06-2009, 13:32   #19
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I read about the loss of your friend in the Jax news. I think GordMay is right in that " Don't Ask and Don't Tell" is the way to go.
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Old 10-06-2009, 13:33   #20
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A) does not exist to begin with. You don't know me , and have no idea what my fears are, or are not. I hate paying for things I break, and for things I should not have done. When I said kid. I am thinking under 30. Not as a child. Prudent, yes very much so in my life, and in the way I sail. FEAR? There is nothing to fear, but fear itself, or an angry woman with a deadly weapon in her hand.........i2f
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Old 10-06-2009, 14:04   #21
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Because everything I did wrong as a kid I got caught for! It would really piss me off if by chance I was caught, cuffed, and penalized, so I am asking.
Sorry mate, whether you want to acknowledge it or not the above reflects a level a fear. Perhaps it is simply a matter of semantics as to how you and I define the word ......

Regardless, it is superfluous to the topic, and suggest you focus on the issue you are concerned about instead.
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Old 10-06-2009, 14:48   #22
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Just do it...... If you are at all worried about the marine patrol ...... call their office and ask their opion ........ I'm betting they will tell you something like, "I don't know but we a're not going to be on the river that day"

I would not venture to guess how many people's ashes have been scattered over the University of Florida's football field in Gainesville, just west of there ....... My alma mater (a large state universtiy just north of Florida) prohibits scattering ashes on it's football field however, If you tell the campus police what you're up to, you'll probably be told something like ..... "It's agianst the rules, don't do it and we're going to leave now and patrol up around the science center for the next hour or so!"
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Old 10-06-2009, 17:33   #23
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that's an interesting response

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Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
And the environmental impact of a few grams of tooth fillings, for God's sake.
Most readers of this site would be quite concerned about the environmental impact of a boat emptying its holding tanks in a confined, slow-moving river such as the St Johns, despite the fact that the lasting environmental impact (assuming the tank hadn't been treated with formaldehyde additives) would be almost negligible, especially if the tank were to be evacuated in an area where the water was relatively oxygenated, at which point the anaerobic bacteria would not survive for long. Comparatively speaking, however, a few grams of mercury amalgam would have a lasting effect in a watershed such as the St Johns.

When that amalgam buries into anaerobic silt on the bottom, it will form methylmercury, a highly toxic substance that attacks the central nervous system. The problem with methylmercury is that it bioaccumulates. In other words, as little fish are eater by larger predators, the toxic substance accumulates in the tissue of the predator when it's biological half-life is longer than the time period where the tissue regenerates. The problem with methylmercury is that it doesn't dissapate. It remains in tissue until that flesh is eaten by a larger animal, such as a human, at which point in remains in human tissue long enough to do damage to the central nervous system. (We're talking about the brain here.)

Methylmercury poisoning seldom is a problem for healthy adults unless they eat a diet almost entirely of fish. It is a problem for children, however, and can be passed along to the fetus if contaminated flesh is eaten by a pregnant mother. The point here is that it takes less of a gram of methylmercury to cause permanent cognitive impairment in a child.

Two facts are beyond dispute. First, this side of radioactive material there is no more toxic heavy metal than mercury that you could possibly add to an estuarine system. Second, there is no estuarine system on this continent that would suffer greater harm than the St. Johns because it's so slow moving, with an elevation drop of only 30 feet over the course of a 310-mile riverbed. Simply put, that amalgam is not going to wash out to sea. It's going to become methylmercury, and it will be consumed at numerous tropic levels. The best you can hope for, I suppose, is that it ends up in the flesh of some alligator and not in the central nervous system of a human child.

But wishing such a thing would seem to be a skewed logic from my perspective.
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Old 10-06-2009, 17:55   #24
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If that is a worry then just run the ashes through a flour sifter and take out the teeth.
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Old 11-06-2009, 01:27   #25
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To get back on track ........

Imagine - we have rules here that say you are not allowed to do that without piles of paperwork and so on.

My Father died and as he loved and spent lots of his life at sea and in the Hauraki Gulf we loaded his boat with some of his closest mates, us family and a picnic lunch. Sailed out to one spot he loved more than most, had a few beers a good feed, said 'See you later' and spread his ashes apon the waters. It was is a good day even considering the reason we were there. No stress or drama and time to have more than a few laughs and memories. Didn't even ding his boat, I'm sure he was watching to see if I did

We didn't ask, we just did it. I would think someone would have to be a Grade A mongrel to say or do anything to you if you did the same, laws or not.

I've told my lot when my time comes to do the same.

I don't think the level, if any, of Mercury would be of much concern considering everything else flowing off Orlando's streets. And I certianly don't think the amateur psychology is very helpful to the thread.
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Old 11-06-2009, 02:48   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bash View Post
Most readers of this site would be quite concerned about the environmental impact of a boat emptying its holding tanks in a confined, slow-moving river such as the St Johns, despite the fact that the lasting environmental impact (assuming the tank hadn't been treated with formaldehyde additives) would be almost negligible, especially if the tank were to be evacuated in an area where the water was relatively oxygenated, at which point the anaerobic bacteria would not survive for long. Comparatively speaking, however, a few grams of mercury amalgam would have a lasting effect in a watershed such as the St Johns.

When that amalgam buries into anaerobic silt on the bottom, it will form methylmercury, a highly toxic substance that attacks the central nervous system. The problem with methylmercury is that it bioaccumulates. In other words, as little fish are eater by larger predators, the toxic substance accumulates in the tissue of the predator when it's biological half-life is longer than the time period where the tissue regenerates. The problem with methylmercury is that it doesn't dissapate. It remains in tissue until that flesh is eaten by a larger animal, such as a human, at which point in remains in human tissue long enough to do damage to the central nervous system. (We're talking about the brain here.)

Methylmercury poisoning seldom is a problem for healthy adults unless they eat a diet almost entirely of fish. It is a problem for children, however, and can be passed along to the fetus if contaminated flesh is eaten by a pregnant mother. The point here is that it takes less of a gram of methylmercury to cause permanent cognitive impairment in a child.

Two facts are beyond dispute. First, this side of radioactive material there is no more toxic heavy metal than mercury that you could possibly add to an estuarine system. Second, there is no estuarine system on this continent that would suffer greater harm than the St. Johns because it's so slow moving, with an elevation drop of only 30 feet over the course of a 310-mile riverbed. Simply put, that amalgam is not going to wash out to sea. It's going to become methylmercury, and it will be consumed at numerous tropic levels. The best you can hope for, I suppose, is that it ends up in the flesh of some alligator and not in the central nervous system of a human child.

But wishing such a thing would seem to be a skewed logic from my perspective.

Every pollutant, even plutonium, even botulism toxin, requires a certain concentration to do any harm. The last bit of the St. Johns River is two or three miles wide. It contains what -- a billion cubic meters of water (30km x 3km x 10m)? What's that, nearly a trillion liters? So even if the water were perfectly stagnant, even 10 grams of mercury, gradually released into the stagnant water, would produce a concentration of -- one part per 100 trillion? One picogram per 100 grams of water? This is millions of times less than what is needed to do any harm. The mud at the bottom of the St. Johns River anyway contains about 0.5 microgram (500,000 picograms) of mercury per gram of mud (ScienceDirect - Home)

That means that the mercury in the dental fillings of one poor dead guy would have zip dot nil nil environmental impact on the St. John's River.


But wait -- you are also assuming that the tooth filling amalgam survives cremation. It apparently does not -- it is vaporized and released into the air: see http://adr.sagepub.com/cgi/reprint/6/1/125.pdf.


Like most cruisers, I treasure nature and a clean environment, and I am all for protecting the environment. But fanatacism which attempts to scare and push people around for no practical benefit does more harm than good to the cause.
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Old 11-06-2009, 07:19   #27
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I saw no reason to mention this earlier, because I was just looking for where to ask, or an answer.

Across the street from our marina is Pegusas, and they are a branch of the CIA. They fly Russian helicopters, high altitude planes, and all sorts of craft 24 hours a day 7 days a week. Once one of the boat owners powerwashed his bilge causing a small slick. Within the hour the marina knew, and the boat owner caught all kinds of hell.

Also the C.G. uses the ends of the piers for practice of recovery, and or attacks of some sort with helicopters, and little orange duckies they drive around while dropping divers out of the helicopters. They have actually used our facility to practice attacking a pier. This is an old naval facility. It's not like this is a secluded area. It is a very busy place, and as I posted. I would hate to be fined for something I should know better than to do. Since I am a car guy let me use this analogy. It would be kind of like doing burnouts with your hot rod in front of the police station.......NOT SMART. Thanks again for everybodies input, and concern. I do appreciate the PM's, and support. Now where's that ignore button.......i2f
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Old 11-06-2009, 08:12   #28
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I saw no reason to mention this earlier, because I was just looking for where to ask, or an answer.

Across the street from our marina is Pegusas, and they are a branch of the CIA. They fly Russian helicopters, high altitude planes, and all sorts of craft 24 hours a day 7 days a week. Once one of the boat owners powerwashed his bilge causing a small slick. Within the hour the marina knew, and the boat owner caught all kinds of hell.

Also the C.G. uses the ends of the piers for practice of recovery, and or attacks of some sort with helicopters, and little orange duckies they drive around while dropping divers out of the helicopters. They have actually used our facility to practice attacking a pier. This is an old naval facility. It's not like this is a secluded area. It is a very busy place, and as I posted. I would hate to be fined for something I should know better than to do. Since I am a car guy let me use this analogy. It would be kind of like doing burnouts with your hot rod in front of the police station.......NOT SMART. Thanks again for everybodies input, and concern. I do appreciate the PM's, and support. Now where's that ignore button.......i2f

If you don't feel comfortable about it, then don't do it. I think what almost everyone here has been saying is that in case you DO feel like you want to do it -- then go for it. Ashes get scattered in the oddest places. They are a natural biodegradable substance -- not like bilge wash or garbage or something. I personally think that it is highly unlikely that you would catch any grief for it, but again -- it's entirely your decision.
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Old 11-06-2009, 09:05   #29
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If it's legal there is no problem, and what we are finding is that it is not a problem. It appears that where our friend fell from the pier into the water is where we will set him adrift along with flowers, and wreaths at sunset. First we will celebrate his life with a feast, and some drink. He is of the personality that spreading joy is a gift. We do plan on making it a joyful occassion.....i2f
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Old 12-06-2009, 00:35   #30
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If it's legal there is no problem, and what we are finding is that it is not a problem. It appears that where our friend fell from the pier into the water is where we will set him adrift along with flowers, and wreaths at sunset. First we will celebrate his life with a feast, and some drink. He is of the personality that spreading joy is a gift. We do plan on making it a joyful occassion.....i2f
Nice call i2f.
Hope it all goes well for everyone.
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