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Old 06-06-2011, 12:41   #106
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Re: Bullying on the Waterway ( Sunset Lake , Miami )

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Originally Posted by knottybuoyz View Post
Being a Canadian in foreign waters I think I'd be inclined to invite the man over to my boat and show him some friendly Canadian hospitality. We'd start out with some Brador's (high test French Canadian Beer) and some buttered Fiddleheads as an appetizer (ya gotta have veggies ya know). Follow that up with some Beaver Tails and Maple Syrup to sweeten the taste buds. The main course would consist of some good ole' Canadian Back Bacon piled high on a Sour Dough Bun and Poutine. The second course would be a Maritime Fisherman's lunch consisting of of Seal Flipper Pie and Cod Cheeks & Tongues with a fine Gooseberry Wine to wash it all down. And if he's still hungry we'll add an Atlantic Canadian Lobster (the kind with the claws) or two all smothered in butter. For dessert we'd serve full fat home made un-pasturized ice cream and our old standby Maple Syrup. A few more Brador's tossed in for good measure. So after he consumes the 35,000 calorie delight I'd just sit back and wait for the coronary event to happen!
Knotty, I could feel mysef salivating and my arteries clogging as I read it. Made my day.
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Old 06-06-2011, 12:46   #107
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Re: Bullying on the Waterway ( Sunset Lake , Miami )

nahhh, a couple shots of 'screech' would resolve the issue a lot faster. But I'll accept an invitation to dinner on your boat anytime. That menu sounds great! I'll bring the cod's tongue.
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Old 07-06-2011, 02:38   #108
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Re: Bullying on the Waterway ( Sunset Lake , Miami )

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Knotty, I could feel mysef salivating and my arteries clogging as I read it. Made my day.
With all that booze in him, a call to the boys in blue as he motors his way home would be your civil duty.

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Old 07-06-2011, 06:07   #109
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Re: Bullying on the Waterway ( Sunset Lake , Miami )

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Knotty, I could feel mysef salivating and my arteries clogging as I read it. Made my day.
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Old 08-06-2011, 14:18   #110
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Re: Bullying on the Waterway ( Sunset Lake , Miami )

testing, testing
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Old 10-06-2011, 22:36   #111
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Re: Bullying on the Waterway ( Sunset Lake , Miami )

ok everyone. I've heard from the Miami Beach Police Department, and it isn't good. To follow is my letter and the Chief's response. I chose not to post my letter to him until I had heard back, out of respect for his office.
The chief's email is "Noriega, Carlos" <CarlosNoriega@miamibeachfl.gov> if you wish to respond to his remarks. Be sure to copy the mayor's office if you do. Her email is mayorbower@miamibeachfl.gov, her assistant is Rebecca Wakefield <RebeccaWakefield@miamibeachfl.gov>


To: Noriega, Carlos
Cc: Reeder, Tricia
Subject: anchoring issue, Fredric Karlton

Good afternoon Sir - By now you have received correspondence from the mayor's office via Rebecca Wakefield concerning my complaint to the Mayor regarding anchoring in Sunset Lake.
I'd like to take this up directly with you at this point, but first I'd like to congratulate you on the superb comportment of your marine officers. All of us on board were quite impressed and I hope that you will pass on to them my thanks for their courtesy and professionalism.

My concern at this point is that most cruisers such as myself are 'conditioned' to do as the police ask - especially when the request is as politely made as in this case. However, the situation should never even come up as I'm sure you'll agree. Someone - and I suspect I wouldn't want the job - is going to have to tell Mr. Karlton that the police will not be responding to his calls any longer, unless there is an actual issue at hand and not just his angst at finding a boat, of all things!, anchored behind his house.
I also think it appropriate that Mr. Karlton be informed that his behaviour in playing loud rap music and shining a strong spotlight at night on boats anchored behind his home is not appropriate. That sort of behaviour might even be considered a threat by some and I wonder if Karlton shouldn't perhaps be cautioned about it - but I absolutely defer to you in making that particular decision. Before you make it though, may I direct you to the Cruisers Forum page where a video showing just what Karlton was doing has been posted: http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...i-61665-3.html
Should you wish to speak to these people, I'll provide you with their email address*. I'm quite certain that they'll wish to share their concerns regarding Mr. Karlton and his behaviour with you, including his threat to park his boat immediately beside theirs the next morning.
At this point, I'm still preparing to move ahead with the July 4th Anchor Fest, as we have no real assurance that this situation is resolved or that Karlton will change his behaviour, at least as far as involving the police is concerned. If we do go ahead, I'd like to speak with your marine people about how to best handle this from a safety viewpoint so as to minimize any negative impacts - well, other than on Mr. Karlton of course, but I honestly expect him to choose to be out of town that day. I'd like to make this as positive an event as possible if it goes ahead.
Thank you for your time and concern, I'll look forward to hearing from you. Again, my congratulations on a professional force, you can be proud of them. And I say that as the son of a career police officer.

Wally Moran

* since this letter was written and first sent, these people have indicated they would be happy to speak with you if you deem in necessary.


Mr. Moran,

Since you have suggested in other correspondence to the Mayor’s office that politicians and police superiors may be abusing their authority with this matter as conveyed with your following statements,
(to follow is a quote from my original letter - Wally)
My question here is this: are the politicians of Miami Beach, and the senior police officers giving the orders and who appear to leap at the politicians beck and call, so craven, so spineless, so hungry for political largesse that they will order their front line officers to break the law? Because that is exactly what happened here - with their request, these officers were violating our rights. They knew it, and clearly didn’t like being ordered to do it.
It’s not like these officers didn’t have more important things to do, it was a busy weekend on the water. No, they were ordered to break the law, to go after us, to get us to move on, all because one man has money and the politicians of Miami Beach (who are in his pocket) don’t have the backbone or integrity to tell him that his money doesn’t buy him that privilege. Quite frankly, if I were a voter in Miami Beach, I’d be asking some very difficult questions of the mayor and the Chief of Police.
For those who would like to ask those questions, Mayor Bower’s email is mayorbower@miamibeachfl.gov. The Chief’s email apparently isn’t publicly available.


I want to make it clear that I find your statement completely irresponsible, slanderous and libel. Accordingly, I will not be responding to any future communication from you. Instead, you may refer your concerns to the Mayor’s Office, City Manager’s Office or our City Attorney’s Office. Also as you are probably aware, I have been contact by the Ethics Commission with regards to your complaint. I welcome any “… difficult questions” presented to me and so that the record is set straight my e-mail is publicly available (carlosnoriega@miamibeachfl.gov) on our City website. We will continue to monitor the activity related to this matter and will aggressively pursue any criminal behavior involved, including any threats that are or have been made.


Carlos Noriega, Chief of Police
Office of the Chief of Police
MIAMI BEACH POLICE DEPARTMENT
1100 Washington Avenue, Miami Beach, FL 33139
Office: 305.673.7776 Ext. 5315
Fax: 305.673.7065
E-Mail: carlosnoriega@miamibeachfl.gov

We are committed to providing excellent public service and safety
to all who live, work and play in our vibrant, tropical, historic community.
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Old 10-06-2011, 22:37   #112
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Re: Bullying on the Waterway ( Sunset Lake , Miami )

My further response to the Chief of Police follows. This has been cc'd to the mayor's office, the City Attorney, and also the Ethics Commission.

Dear Mr. Noriega - my intent was not to aggravate you, and I'm sorry both that you are incensed at my remarks and that you feel disinclined to discuss this matter with me. I understand that it's been a difficult week for you, given the events you've had to deal with. I'm sure you don't need this on top of everything else.

However, the facts of the matter are that your marine police have, on more than one occasion and subsequent to Karlton's complaining, come out to 'encourage' boaters who are legally anchored in Miami Beach, to move. That is fact - it is NOT slanderous, libelous or irresponsible.
In fact, what IS irresponsible in my opinion is the waste of police resources - manpower, time and equipment - that are used in pandering to Mr. Karlton's personal problems with boaters engaging in a legal pastime. If I were a taxpayer in Miami Beach, I would most certainly have issues with all of that. I also have issues with the infringement on people's rights to engage in a legal activity which is inclusive in what is happening here.

You happen to be the boss. You set the tone, and if what I saw on Memorial Day weekend was representative, then you are doing a good job and your men reflect that. All I've tried to do here is to bring out a situation that needs attending to. I'm astonished by the hostility of your response to my concerns, which represent the concerns of the many other boaters who have stopped in Miami Beach and been confronted by Karlton. I would have thought your concern would be to resolve the situation, to make it clear that Karlton does not have special privileges with the MB Police. You haven't said that.

I don't know just who dispatched your officers. If it was a desk officer or staffer responding to a call and there was no influence behind it, please just say so. I can accept that and admit that my assertions were in error. In fact, I'd be quite pleased to hear that, since it would be a far simpler situation to resolve. Instead, you've taken huge umbrage to my remarks and that leads me to wonder if, indeed, there isn't some complicity, some pandering towards Karlton's concerns. What I want to hear is that it isn't MBPD policy to be at Karlton's every whim when he's upset over someone engaged in a legal practice. I want to hear that boaters don't need to be concerned that they will have to deal with a police presence while engaged in doing something they have every right to do. That's hardly a lot to ask, or so I would have thought.

For your information, I have deliberately not posted my original email to you while awaiting your response, out of respect for your office. I had hoped that I would be able to report back to the hundreds of cruisers who are following this issue that the MB Police had assured me that we would no longer be 'gently harassed', as one of them put it, by the police. As I said, I have no criticisms of your men, who were most polite, but the fact is, what they are doing is still not right. They know it, I know it, and you know it.

I note that you have not indicated that you wish to speak to the couple who were harassed by Mr. Karlton with loud music and a bright spotlight until well into the night in May, 2011. Is this how you intend to "monitor the activity", as regards "threats that have been made"? They felt threatened by Karlton's actions, and have said as much to me. Do you plan to respond to that?

Since you have indicated that you have no intention of communicating with me, I will forward this correspondence - and yours - to those you have suggested, along with my remarks on your response. I am sorry that you have not chosen to deal with this more amicably. It was never my intent to cause disagreement here and most certainly not with you.

Sincerely,

W. Moran

p.s. my remark about your email was based on the consideration that a Chief's email just might not be public, given that there are people who would abuse it. I simply didn't see it online anywhere. There was no slight intended.
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Old 10-06-2011, 23:11   #113
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Re: Bullying on the Waterway ( Sunset Lake , Miami )

Are you really all that surprised he took offense? You have said he appears to be in the politicians politics and that the actions and words of his officers make it appear as though he's "so craven, so spineless, so hungry for political largesse that they will order their front line officers to break the law". You also flat out said the politicians of Miami are in Karlton's pocket.

If you feed someone a plate of dung it's a bit unreasonable to expect him to smile when you ask him to eat it.
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Old 10-06-2011, 23:40   #114
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Re: Bullying on the Waterway ( Sunset Lake , Miami )

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Are you really all that surprised he took offense? You have said he appears to be in the politicians politics and that the actions and words of his officers make it appear as though he's "so craven, so spineless, so hungry for political largesse that they will order their front line officers to break the law". You also flat out said the politicians of Miami are in Karlton's pocket.

If you feed someone a plate of dung it's a bit unreasonable to expect him to smile when you ask him to eat it.
I am, so a chief of police can not show professionalism because someone made a statement about him and his city. HUMMM
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Old 10-06-2011, 23:59   #115
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Re: Bullying on the Waterway ( Sunset Lake , Miami )

To tell you the truth, I was a bit surprised at the lack of professionalism the man showed. Granted, he's had a bad couple of weeks, with a police shooting causing death, and an officer injured in a traffic incident with guns drawn.
Still, and I note this in my reply - he hasn't addressed any of the issues I brought up. That's what this is about - not my offending him, and please note, I've credited the front line officers involved for their comportment - but the fact that he has not addressed any of our cruisers' concerns.
THAT is the issue - not my being suggestive or making unfounded accusations about probity - but the fact that the police are being asked by their superiors at the behest of a private citizen to violate people's rights.
Let's focus on what's important here.
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Old 11-06-2011, 00:01   #116
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Re: Bullying on the Waterway ( Sunset Lake , Miami )

His response looked professional to me. He's been accused of illegal activity and now expects communication to go through other channels. This is very typical of any professional situation where there's been accusations of impropriety.

You are far more likely to have open lines of communication with someone if you don't start the conversation by accusing him of criminal activity, whether he's guilty or not.
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Old 11-06-2011, 00:06   #117
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Re: Bullying on the Waterway ( Sunset Lake , Miami )

I applaud your indignation and your call to action! If I could be there I would be volunteering in a minute BUT...
I agree with Hummingway. In the past I was engaged in conflict resolution professionally for number of years and the problem here is that this police cheif has nowhere to go when confronted with the lanquage used to frame this argument. He can't save face here and so his only response is a push back. I wouldn't dream of arguing with you that this is more often than not the real state of politics but unfortunately your first salvo is much too inflamatory and so counter-productive.
None of the political figures involved are going to have much sympathy for your position at this point and will no doubt circle the wagons themselves. That mayor may not think much of your police chief but she is not likely to go after him based on your letter and will probably consider it her duty to back him up since she will maybe feel that she was painted with a similar brush. Politicians a very sensitive to the sad reality you present...( they want to be called "electeds" here now! ).
I wish I ha been more engaged in this thread earlier but...

I think the Anchor Fest idea is great but be careful... all it takes is one idiot to ruin a peaceful demonstrtion and give the police chief all the excuse he needs to cause problems. Having done this sort of thing before we have always held trainings beforehand and had as many monitors on hand as possible to remind folks to kep the peace. I think close co-ordination with the gendarmes is key with constant reassurance that you just want to have a peaceful demo. Is it just you or do you have a committee? This is a lot of responsibility and a big job for one.
Am I overstating the hazards here? I dunno
Sorry for the horrid mis-spellings don't want to spen too much time on this
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Old 11-06-2011, 00:08   #118
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Re: Bullying on the Waterway ( Sunset Lake , Miami )

The appropriate way to handle this would have been for the Chief to have outlined just what happened and why - and if I'm wrong, make that clear. As I said in my followup, if I'm wrong, I can handle that. In other words, work a dialogue, resolve the issues.
However, Noriega doesn't deny anything, doesn't attempt to explain anything, doesn't respond to our concerns. Instead, he cuts off communications.
That's hardly professional. However, I grant what Butler has said, I might have been overly incendiary with my letter to the mayor. Blame that on too many years interviewing politicians and having to listen to their blather.
Also, my remarks were based on what the officers told me at the time about why they were ordered out - that Karlton's political clout gave him some leverage at City Hall and that, of course, transmutes into this situation.
Someone at City Hall says to someone at the station - hey, you need to deal with this, a benefactor is unhappy....and officers get sent out. It's still an inappropriate use of power. Someone has to learn to say 'no'.
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Old 11-06-2011, 00:10   #119
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Re: Bullying on the Waterway ( Sunset Lake , Miami )

Hi Butler - can you PM me please?
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Old 11-06-2011, 00:45   #120
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Re: Bullying on the Waterway ( Sunset Lake , Miami )

note also - the mayor's office responded to my original letter without the 'attitude' the Chief of Police showed, even though I was certainly far harder on her office and fellow politicians than on the police.
Bottom line is, Noriega has to make it policy that officers don't get sent out on calls like this, to appease a political donor. And if that means telling someone at City Hall - tough luck bud, we can't kiss your guy's butt no more - that's the way it has to be.
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