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Old 03-06-2011, 07:19   #61
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Re: Bullying on the Waterway ( Sunset Lake, Miami )

I believe the city will respond rapidly to the situation . . . by landfilling Sunset Lake and selling the property to a local developer, Mr. Fred Karlton, in a no-bid contract.
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Old 03-06-2011, 07:34   #62
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Re: Bullying on the Waterway ( Sunset Lake, Miami )

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Did it occur to you that you might have put the police officers in a difficult position by talking so much about their behavior? I bet they are regretting having been nice to you right about now.
That's something to try to be sensitive to, but it's not canuksailor who put them in the difficult position in the first place. They should not be ashamed of trying to be decent and reasonable. Their behavior and attitude is to be commended and those that put them in the difficult position should be made to feel uncomfortable.

Arrogance has been around for a long time and it's not going to go away tomorrow. It's is one of the worlds worst ills because in extreme cases, the decisions are made to contain or even eliminate the "inferior" in one way or another. Being asked to move a boat is a small step in that direction.
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Old 03-06-2011, 07:43   #63
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pirate Re: Bullying on the Waterway ( Sunset Lake, Miami )

We have to know that a lot of city managers are watching these developments. I doubt it will end well for cruisers.
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Old 03-06-2011, 07:56   #64
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Re: Bullying on the Waterway ( Sunset Lake, Miami )

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Other than 'privileged' individuals like Karlton here, I've found Americans to be courteous, considerate and pleasant people wherever I've been in the US and elsewhere.
You have no reason to apologize -- and that you did proves MY point about Americans, doesn't it?
Couldn't agree more . Over Easter weekend two large motorboats appeared on the other side of the pontoon to us. Within an hour of striking up a conversation (we both had dogs on board) he started to clean the Mackerel he had just caught. He offered us several very nice fish for our tea if we wanted. Nice jesture by a complete stranger. His flag? a Stars and Stripes.

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Old 03-06-2011, 08:18   #65
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Re: Bullying on the Waterway ( Sunset Lake, Miami )

Doug 86 notes....In fact, he will probably hear through his contacts about the letters to the Mayor and it will move him to more drastic tactics to drive boaters away from his view."

That is a possibility here. There are some indications online involving a failed romance alleging a degree of - ahem - instability. Just allegations, nothing proven, and the woman's brother, a MB police officer, vouches for Karlton.
Still - should Karlton step it up a notch, that puts him square in the sights of the local police and the shoe will then be quite firmly on the other foot.
He may be obnoxious, but I don't think he's stupid. I could be wrong...
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Old 03-06-2011, 08:27   #66
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Re: Bullying on the Waterway ( Sunset Lake, Miami )

Has anyone tried a Letter to the Editor? I would not necessarily assume the local paper is bought out by Mr. NIMBY. (Not In My Back Yard)
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Old 03-06-2011, 08:37   #67
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Re: Bullying on the Waterway ( Sunset Lake, Miami )

David - the original letter was sent to the Miami Herald, who are looking into the situation...although we've outrun their story at this point I believe and it will shortly be 'old news'. I'll be following up with them later as a courtesy (I'm a former newspaper publisher/owner and currently freelance with SAIL, Waterway Guide and some others.
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Old 03-06-2011, 10:16   #68
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Re: Bullying on the Waterway ( Sunset Lake, Miami )

I have a few fears about this entire situation. None of them have to do with Mr. Karlton. They all have to do with boaters who might come in. Here's some things to think about.

- Mr. Karlton is not stupid. He has shown that he knows the ordinances of Miami Beach quite well. Multiple cruisers have told me that the music stops at 10 or 11 at night - probably coinciding with a local regulation. The light shining on the water is probably not covered by an ordinance. He knows that.

- To the best of my knowledge, Mr. Karlton has not brought his personal boat out and obstructed other boats although he's threatened to do this. Bringing his boat out and causing damage to others would take this away from Miami Beach regulations and move it much more into Federal regulations with the Coast Guard, etc. If he ever moved his boat out to cause interference, I'd hope that the boaters anchored there would have a good plan about how to deal with it (calling local law enforcement, Coast Guard, video taping the obstruction) along with the relevant laws about it.

- The Sunset Lake anchorage does not really border the ICW - it's quite a bit away. It isn't a bad overnight anchorage while passing through but there are certainly much better anchorages for visiting Miami Beach that are close to there.


I worry that there's a feeling that we need to somehow teach this guy a lesson. What exactly will that prove? I fear that Mr. Karlton is going to end up meeting a boater who's had too much to drink, carries weapons, and gets royally pissed off enough to cause an incident. While operating completely under the law, Mr. Karlton would love this type of thing (assuming he isn't shot) because it would give him help in his personal battle against people dropping their anchor in his view. The results of this might damage the ability to anchor in the other, nicer anchorages in the area.

There are probably much more creative ways to get a message across without causing an incident. Mr. Karlton is a real estate developer and probably has a wake of properties in his portfolio. Someone once told me he owns a few restaurants although I haven't found evidence of this. Staying totally within the law and in fact using the law would be a much more effective way at getting Mr. Karlton to stop his annoying behaviors. For example, leaving public protests at his properties, calling with hundreds of reservations at his restaurants, finding some legal small claims suit annoyance - these types of things will be much more effective in using the law on our side much like he's using the law on his to cause the annoyance. If his actions based on a couple of boaters anchoring outside his backyard a couple of times a month started causing issues and cost in his real life business, he'd stop.

Before organizing a huge "anchor-in", I'd hope someone familiar with the Miami Beach ordinances would make sure they understood all the issues that might be faced. It's also quite possible that Mr. Karlton won't be at his residence on that one July 4th day.

I guess what I'm saying is that instead of confronting Mr. Karlton directly, it might be much more effective and safer if the things that really mattered to Mr. Karlton (his business?) were brought into the equation to raise the stakes for him a little. It's all just too easy for him to shine a bright light at a boat right now.
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Old 03-06-2011, 10:30   #69
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Re: Bullying on the Waterway ( Sunset Lake, Miami )

All valid points, I've addressed some of them here earlier. Let me recap, and add a few thoughts.
The light shining on someone's boat constitutes harassment. I suspect the police would act on that, although I don't know the specific laws. Perhaps we have a lawyer here who can elucidate?
If you watch the video, that music is LOUD. His neighbours have got to be annoyed with his behaviour - in fact, one of the officers told me they had been called out by a local because of it on one occasion, so Karlton isn't getting off scott free here. They're quite aware of his behaviour.
As a Canadian, I hesitate to address the gun thing as it's a cultural issue we don't share. I would hope that we don't get a gun battle here however. However, Karlton is instigating the problem here, violating the rights of others. Are we supposed to accept that? I'm supposed to be a polite, milquetoast Canuck and I don't accept it.
As for the 'creative ways', I refuse to lower myself to Karlton's level. I have a point to make and I'm going to make that point cleanly, clearly and forthrightly.
I have already broached the issue of what will keep the Anchor Fest legal with the Chief of Police. Out of deference to that office, I'm not reporting those discussions here until there are conclusions we all agree on.
And if Karlton chooses to leave his home on July 4th, that's a victory. We will have shown him that there is a cost to his behaviour, that he is being inconvenienced because, and only because, he has chosen to deny others their lawful rights.
We're simply shining a brighter light back at Karlton - the light of right. Let's see who blinks first.
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Old 03-06-2011, 11:03   #70
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Re: Bullying on the Waterway ( Sunset Lake, Miami )

canucksailor I for one am grateful you are confronting this Swell Old Boy head on and if I still had a boat I'd be there with you.

I can show appreciation one way. If you get to Port Charlotte/Punta Gorda you and yours are invited to long hot showers and use of the washer and drier and will drive you to stores and such. PM me if you choose to stop by.
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Old 03-06-2011, 11:17   #71
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Re: Bullying on the Waterway ( Sunset Lake, Miami )

Mike, I'm on the wrong coast, but I'll file that invite under 'future cruises I will be making'. I really like the west coast of FL. Last there a year ago October, did an article on sailing Pine Island sound for SAIL.
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Old 03-06-2011, 12:06   #72
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Re: Bullying on the Waterway ( Sunset Lake, Miami )

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As for the 'creative ways', I refuse to lower myself to Karlton's level.
Some find it very easy to take the low road. Yours is the better path.
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Old 03-06-2011, 12:25   #73
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pirate Re: Bullying on the Waterway ( Sunset Lake, Miami )

I'm in agreement with Canucks tack... face on... the sneaking round doing phoney reservations etc is snide and cheap... a bit like keying someones car coz they made you look stupid in a bar...
Nope... face them fair and square... then maybe the outcome 'may' be a grudging respect and tolerance...
In school I was the 7 stone weakling of Charles Atlas fame... (still am..) but the bullies learnt to leave me alone.. eventually...
arms and fists get tired and sore after a while... and it aint no fun hitting someone who won't quit...
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Old 03-06-2011, 12:43   #74
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Re: Bullying on the Waterway ( Sunset Lake, Miami )

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Nope... face them fair and square... then maybe the outcome 'may' be a grudging respect and tolerance...
With knowledge of all of the laws on the other side, it's quite the uphill battle and an unfair fight. It's also obvious that canucksailor is not a US citizen and visiting at the pleasure of the United States. Mr. Karlton has demonstrated himself to be knowledgeable and well connected. I'm sure there's nothing that can go wrong there...

I seriously hope it works out.
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Old 03-06-2011, 13:34   #75
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Re: Bullying on the Waterway ( Sunset Lake, Miami )

How about someone inviting a TV news reporter out for a sail and night at anchor? Have them bring their camera!

Got to be a better local news story than lots that they waste time on.
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