Bahamas - the next cruising domino teeters...

[Palarran]

Originally Posted by mjscottinnc

If anyone is keeping a tally, I contributed about $1,000 a month during my last cruise. That was higher then normal as I was entertaining family members 70% of the time.

This probably reinforces the viewpoint of the Bahamian officials. A typical family visiting by land would spend this amount each day.

[Souzag818]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Agreed, but they concentrate where the touristy activities are.
A Cruiser moves around and buys provisions and food in the family Islands, so what little impact we have is spread around and goes often to the poorer parts of the Bahamas.
I’m still astonished at how little we are marketed to though, I would have expected a West Marine type store in Georgetown and Marsh Harbor, both have large transient populations of boats.

Can you imagine, with Worst Marine's ridiculous pricing in the states, what boat parts would cost in Georgetown or Marsh Harbor??!!

[belizesailor]

[QUOTE=KC375;2932748]

Originally Posted by mjscottinnc

It’s true sailors may be more likely to make a contribution to the out-islands or family-islands than landlubbers but it is still often a very small contribution compared to landlubbers.
my family often complains that I’m painfully parsimonious, so I mean no disrespect to budget minded cruisers.
The example quoted above is consistent with the various budget/how much I spent threads elsewhere on this site. So $1000 for a month for at least three people...comes $11 a day per person.
That’s the maid service tip for one night’s hotel room...that’s not even a round of drinks. If you are responsible for economic development in the Bahamas you have to bring in an order of magnitude more cruisers than landlubbers for the same economic benefit(10-30 times as many). Where would you focus your economic development efforts?

Just to clarify, I didnt make that statement...looks like it got corrupted in editing and incorrect attributed. However, I do agree with your post.

Looks like this reply got whacked up too.

[BlackHeron]

A dollar here and a dollar there, pretty soon it adds up to real money if it keeps going and expands in scope.

But some planners always think they can simply Jeff Bezos their entire tourist economy into a big-time cashflow all in one go. Screw the little guys, not worth even bothering...

[tomfl]

[QUOTE=KC375;2932748]

Originally Posted by mjscottinnc

It’s true sailors may be more likely to make a contribution to the out-islands or family-islands than landlubbers but it is still often a very small contribution compared to landlubbers.
my family often complains that I’m painfully parsimonious, so I mean no disrespect to budget minded cruisers.
The example quoted above is consistent with the various budget/how much I spent threads elsewhere on this site. So $1000 for a month for at least three people...comes $11 a day per person.
That’s the maid service tip for one night’s hotel room...that’s not even a round of drinks. If you are responsible for economic development in the Bahamas you have to bring in an order of magnitude more cruisers than landlubbers for the same economic benefit(10-30 times as many). Where would you focus your economic development efforts?

I have a good non boating friend who took his wife and kid to Atlantis for a week and spent more money than I do in a couple of months cruising. Of course I am anchoring as far away from everything as possible; even if it is only a short hop to the next cay. I tend to provision well before hand and catch as much sea food as possible. I have a solar oven to cook, and a well designed solar array, house battery bank, and well insulated fridge. I never come close to spending $US11 a day.

The thing about economic development is that it never really goes how you expect. The Bahamas has very few resources. Sure it is possible to build a Disney World like resort on the beach but that is about the extent of a realistic economy.

Another consideration that opens up a whole new can of worms is how many Haitians have entered the Bahamas and created shanty towns in many areas. It has been sad for me to see how much many things in the Bahamas have gone down. As another poster mentioned it use to be that Bimini was a nice three day weekend trip for a half way decent outboard ocean going skiff but it has now been priced out of reach for many. On the other hand there has been a huge increase in the number of hotels/condos there that has resulted in a huge increase in crime and general run down look of the place. Not to mention how much environmental damage has been done on North Bimini. Maybe it is a better economy in terms of numbers but not in terms of quality of life.

[KC375]

[QUOTE=belizesailor;2932829]

Originally Posted by KC375

Just to clarify, I didnt make that statement...looks like it got corrupted in editing and incorrect attributed. However, I do agree with your post.

Looks like this reply got whacked up too.

BelizeSailor I apologize for mangling the post with the effect of misattributing the quote to you.
(By the way I think we may have met 10-12 years ago on 46’ FP Bahia with my family -kids got serious excess sun first day - we sailed down the reef including a stop at glovers and on to Placencia, you had to debark early to attend a wedding but arranged for J. to join us....or I may be confusing you with someone else)
To be clear I don’t mean any disrespect to budget conscious cruisers. I hope the Bahamas finds a way to stay open to them while also finding pragmatic ways to raise revenue. I expect most budget conscious cruisers add little to the local economy but also put little strain on it, no airport needed, no ugly hotel development etc. So a small but net positive.

I just wanted to present the perspective of the local official working with imperfect tools trying to find reasonable ways to raise revenue. The Bahamas has taken what many economists view as a rational strategy of raising revenue through consumption taxes rather than income taxes. The effect of that is visitors to the Bahamas fall under the tax net more than they might visiting other countries...I’m not sure the locals see that as a problem. If it get’s to the point it creates a net drop in revenue ... like the sales and import taxes on other things cruisers would have purchased then it is a problem.
I can see how $150 or $300 might be meaningful on a day or weekend trip to Bimini. On the other hand that fee gives you the right to 52 weekend trips. Too expensive for one weekend but then you didn’t really matter much to the Islands. Realistically if the fee has a material impact on your decision to visit then you were not going to spend that much any way. The alternate view is it may keep some people from sampling the Bahamas for a brief visit who might later become more meaningful visitors if they enjoyed that first visit.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by KC375

BelizeSailor I apologize for mangling the post with the effect of misattributing the quote to you.
(By the way I think we may have met 10-12 years ago on 46’ FP Bahia with my family -kids got serious excess sun first day - we sailed down the reef including a stop at glovers and on to Placencia, you had to debark early to attend a wedding but arranged for J. to join us....or I may be confusing you with someone else)
To be clear I don’t mean any disrespect to budget conscious cruisers. I hope the Bahamas finds a way to stay open to them while also finding pragmatic ways to raise revenue. I expect most budget conscious cruisers add little to the local economy but also put little strain on it, no airport needed, no ugly hotel development etc. So a small but net positive.

I just wanted to present the perspective of the local official working with imperfect tools trying to find reasonable ways to raise revenue. The Bahamas has taken what many economists view as a rational strategy of raising revenue through consumption taxes rather than income taxes. The effect of that is visitors to the Bahamas fall under the tax net more than they might visiting other countries...I’m not sure the locals see that as a problem. If it get’s to the point it creates a net drop in revenue ... like the sales and import taxes on other things cruisers would have purchased then it is a problem.
I can see how $150 or $300 might be meaningful on a day or weekend trip to Bimini. On the other hand that fee gives you the right to 52 weekend trips. Too expensive for one weekend but then you didn’t really matter much to the Islands. Realistically if the fee has a material impact on your decision to visit then you were not going to spend that much any way. The alternate view is it may keep some people from sampling the Bahamas for a brief visit who might later become more meaningful visitors if they enjoyed that first visit.

No offense taken, just a technical glitch.

Yes, I remember your charter and the nasty sunburn. You and your family went on to stay at Turtle Inn right?

[KC375]

Originally Posted by belizesailor

No offense taken, just a technical glitch.

Yes, I remember your charter and the nasty sunburn. You and your family went on to stay at Turtle Inn right?

We did.
We enjoyed both charter and the Inn (where my daughter's sunburn healed enough to get her PADI check out done).

[Group9]

Originally Posted by Pegu Club

We need to realize that one couple or one family that books a hotel room/s for a week, and purchases three meals a day plus booze, and souvenirs for that week has a much larger economic impact than a cruising boat does in the same weeks time.
The Bahamians know who is buttering their bread, and we cruisers aren’t doing it. We do add some to the economy, but way less than land based tourism does.

Fair winds,

And, there is the deal. Regular tourists are renting hotel rooms, and going to resorts, and restaurants on just a few big islands. Where do the Bahamians running businesses on the small out islands get their tourist revenue from? Boaters.

I suspect that this whole fee increase has a lot to do with where cruiser money goes and doesn't go, and Nassau thinking that this is a way to siphon the cruiser money away from the small islands and straight into the government coffers.

Because, I'll still go to the Bahamas. But, my overall budget won't increase. Where will I get the money for the increased cruiser's fee? From our eating out and marina budget, the only place we have some flexibility. So, it doesn't change what we spend in the Bahamas, it just changes who it goes to.

And, that is the point of the whole thing, I'm betting.

[KC375]

Originally Posted by Group9

And, there is the deal. Regular tourists are renting hotel rooms, and going to resorts, and restaurants on just a few big islands. Where do the Bahamians running businesses on the small out islands get their tourist revenue from? Boaters.

I suspect that this whole fee increase has a lot to do with where cruiser money goes and doesn't go, and Nassau thinking that this is a way to siphon the cruiser money away from the small islands and straight into the government coffers.

Because, I'll still go to the Bahamas. But, my overall budget won't increase. Where will I get the money for the increased cruiser's fee? From our eating out and marina budget, the only place we have some flexibility. So, it doesn't change what we spend in the Bahamas, it just changes who it goes to.

And, that is the point of the whole thing, I'm betting.

Well the reality of taxes are they always displace spending. From the Bahamas treasury POV yes better you pay the cruising fee than you spend it on ...well anything.
I think you make a fair case that if it limits cruisers budgets or it reduces cruisers then there will be a shift in value away from the out islands to the treasury or more developed tourist locations. I don’t think that is the intent. I do think the government may consider that be a compelling argument against this. Historically the Bahamas tax system has had a number of fiscal incentives in favour of the family islands (no tax on building supplies for the out islands etc.) that suggest some political leverage by and or desire for economic development of the out islands (at least under previous regimes).

[Group9]

Originally Posted by KC375

Well the reality of taxes are they always displace spending. .

A reality to some. But, not to politicians.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Souzag818

Can you imagine, with Worst Marine's ridiculous pricing in the states, what boat parts would cost in Georgetown or Marsh Harbor??!!

I can tell you what it cost to be shipped to Ft. Lauderdale, where you pay to have them flown to Georgetown, then pay for custom duties and then of course the importer gets their cut too.

[a64pilot]

Near as I could tell the Bahamas has two sources of income, tourism and banking, that’s pretty much it.
Spanish Wells does some Lobstering and I guess you could say the Nassau straw market, but I saw nothing grown, nothing farmed etc.
A few goats tied up in yards and chickens everywhere.

I’d assume the unemployment is horrendous as I can’t imagine there could be much work.

[mjscottinnc]

[QUOTE=KC375;2932748]

Originally Posted by mjscottinnc

It’s true sailors may be more likely to make a contribution to the out-islands or family-islands than landlubbers but it is still often a very small contribution compared to landlubbers.
my family often complains that I’m painfully parsimonious, so I mean no disrespect to budget minded cruisers.
The example quoted above is consistent with the various budget/how much I spent threads elsewhere on this site. So $1000 for a month for at least three people...comes $11 a day per person.
That’s the maid service tip for one night’s hotel room...that’s not even a round of drinks. If you are responsible for economic development in the Bahamas you have to bring in an order of magnitude more cruisers than landlubbers for the same economic benefit(10-30 times as many). Where would you focus your economic development efforts?

I'm wondering if there are any published statistics on cruising boats vs fishing boats, that might give some insight into the actual economic impact of each group. I can only speak from my own experiences, but the ratio of cruising boats to fishing boats has always been between 10 - 30 to 1 on my trips which have always started the beginning of December. Not the busy season I've been told.

[KC375]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Near as I could tell the Bahamas has two sources of income, tourism and banking, that’s pretty much it.
Spanish Wells does some Lobstering and I guess you could say the Nassau straw market, but I saw nothing grown, nothing farmed etc.
A few goats tied up in yards and chickens everywhere.

I’d assume the unemployment is horrendous as I can’t imagine there could be much work.

Unemployment rate: This entry contains the percent of the labor force that is without jobs. Substantial underemployment might be noted.
10.1% (2017 est.)
12.2% (2016 est.)
country comparison to the world: 140