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Old 24-03-2015, 16:28   #31
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Re: Are the Seas getting more Violent?

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It's Obama's fault
Well yeah that's a given. And if not is would be the USers.
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Old 24-03-2015, 16:37   #32
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Re: Are the Seas getting more Violent?

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If Dr. Moore has a PhD. in ANY branch of science from ANY reputable institution, I'll eat my green, fake leather hat. First I have to go out and buy one though.
Patrick Moore: Confessions of a Greenpeace Dropout | sustain.ubc.ca
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Old 24-03-2015, 16:55   #33
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Re: Are the Seas getting more Violent?

And ...?
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Old 24-03-2015, 16:58   #34
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Re: Are the Seas getting more Violent?

Fair enough, though I know nothing of the accreditation of UBC I will stipulate they are considered reputable in Canada. Just let me get the hat and some globally warmed hot sauce to put on it! But come on, what percentage of ecologists agree with him, really? And what is the PROBABILITY he has some dog in the fight? Forgive my suspicious nature...
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Old 24-03-2015, 17:05   #35
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Re: Are the Seas getting more Violent?

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to quote AL Gore, in any capacity, is to demean the whole subject. Mr Gore is merely a bad spokesman for a particular argument and in fact one he has done more damage to.

Scientists that study the data and build models in general have agreed that climate change is occurring, as you say , there is a man made component. whats not agreed is the scale of the change or the subsequent consequences. It could be relatively benign , or even within our ability to easily cope, or it could be more catistropic depending on who you listen to.
Well, and that's the rub. When has science ever been settled on anything? Science is always advancing and new knowledge being obtained. But now, if you don't accept that the science is settled on global warming/global cooling/climate change, you are insane.
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Old 24-03-2015, 17:06   #36
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Re: Are the Seas getting more Violent?

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And what is the PROBABILITY he has some dog in the fight?
Everybody has a dog in the fight, that's part of the problem I have with the whole thing. As an engineer, I'd love some facts. But the facts are distorted on both sides, seems like. Any time a political party says 'vote for me or else', it is a sure sign something is just not right.

Just an example, Warren Buffet is against Keystone Pipeline because the BNSF ships all that crude from Canada to Texas. He has financial interest in being 'green'.

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Old 24-03-2015, 17:09   #37
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Re: Are the Seas getting more Violent?

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And ...?
Don wanted to know where Dr Moore got his PhD. - "Patrick Moore (Ph.D. Ecology, UBC)"
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Old 24-03-2015, 17:19   #38
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Re: Are the Seas getting more Violent?

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Fair enough, though I know nothing of the accreditation of UBC I will stipulate they are considered reputable in Canada. Just let me get the hat and some globally warmed hot sauce to put on it! But come on, what percentage of ecologists agree with him, really? And what is the PROBABILITY he has some dog in the fight? Forgive my suspicious nature...
About UBC | The University of British Columbia
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Old 24-03-2015, 17:21   #39
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Re: Are the Seas getting more Violent?

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Everybody has a dog in the fight, that's part of the problem I have with the whole thing. As an engineer, I'd love some facts. But the facts are distorted on both sides, seems like. Any time a political party says 'vote for me or else', it is a sure sign something is just not right.

Just an example, Warren Buffet is against Keystone Pipeline because the BNSF ships all that crude from Canada to Texas. He has financial interest in being 'green'.

~ Following Cs ~
Of course we want facts. As an engineer you are used to dealing with facts and calculations that have wrong and right answers. Climate science deals more in probability. The question is are we causing global warming? The science points to, we probably are. That's not a very good and clean fact. But when it comes to distorting "facts" I think it is wise to look at what motives one might have for distorting scientific assessments, conclusions or at the extreme, actual hard data. I have no idea about Warren Buffet's motives but I wouldn't be surprised if you are right. I think it would be hard to get rich being green.
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Old 24-03-2015, 17:21   #40
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Re: Are the Seas getting more Violent?

Here we go again, round and round... It was good while it lasted Newt. Thanks for trying. I'm out...
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Old 24-03-2015, 17:22   #41
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Re: Are the Seas getting more Violent?

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By the way that will mean that average rogue wave height will also be increasing. I am also surprised to hear so much on the climate change denial side here. Forget hurricanes for now, look at the long term change in ocean currents and sea temps. Now really, yes there are natural fluctuations, but not in only 100 years.
And how can that be shown for sure? Tree rings? What else?

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Seems this reference is mainly to the World Meteorological Organization's 2006 stance on Hurricanes. However, it looks like they reaffirmed this position in 2012. The link between tropical cyclone activity and global warming is inconclusive. Although if you read the current report it says it's basically a lack of long-term quality data that is causing the uncertainty.

I seem to notice there is a lot of that. Agreed upon quality is as good as picking an anchor.

Here's a summary statement: "The scientific community is currently divided between some who believe that anthropogenic climate change has already had a detectable effect on tropical cyclone activity, and others who view the observed changes in cyclone intensity, frequency and paths as indistinguishable from natural variability. UNESCAP/WMO and IPCC's SREX reflect the view that there is insufficient data to take a definitive position."



Along these same lines, I came across this recent research which mines prehistoric hurricane data for the Florida coast. Appears they've been able to tease out the number of storm surge events going back thousands of years. Here they conclude the recorded history (~160 years) underestimates the frequency of major hurricane events hitting Florida.

Record of thousands of years: Mega-storm surge in Florida
"Based on historical records, northwestern Florida gets hit by a hurricane packing a five-meter (16-foot) storm surge every 400 years. Incorporating long-term paleohurricane records, the authors find that the frequency of such a storm is actually closer to every 40 years."

IOW, major wallops are a lot more common than is currently predicted based on our 160 years of recorded history. Better sell that Florida beach front property now .
Dang. More data problems. And a factor of 10!! Boy, that'll change a graph for the jury in a hurry.

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And (Sorry Newt, but climate change is personal for me for this reason) full disclosure, I am a sixth grade science teacher and I don't need $100,000 from the Koch brothers to convince me to stop teaching about global warming. I temper it myself but not for the reasons that they espouse. To a child it is tragically dispiriting and discouraging to be told the Earth you are growing up into is going to hell in a handbasket, even if the evidence is there. So I teach about the evidence but I focus on the positives FOR THE CHILDREN. For adults, I hope we aren't all blindly or ignorantly dismissing valid, verified and verifiable data that is crucial to our successful custodianship of the Earth.
Many are not blinded by questionable data no matter how well presented at the $1500.00 a plate dinners. If you are teaching what you say is the "evidence" then you are only teaching what YOU want them to learn as far as what is right and correct. There can not be another way though. I understand that.
I feel sorry for my children also.

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Well yeah that's a given. And if not is would be the USers.
It is always the fault of the USA.

"Global Warming" went to "Climate Change" so everything could be blamed on humans and our CO2, no matter what happened.
What part of the constant changing of the earth do folks not get?
And IMO the real problem is our appetite and reproductive rate. And our waste. Pollution (waste) and appetite (killing everything so we can eat more) is the real issue.

But wait!!! New technology will save us!! Right. Where do we put more nuclear waste when we can't dispose of what we have now? Get energy from the wind and tides. Fine till we find out that those will have an effect on the, yep, you got it, wind and tides.

Is there anything on the planet touched by man that did not initially turn to gold and then turn to dust? Anything?

No matter really though. If predictions are correct (they always are right?) the North American caldera is overdue for a collapse. That will be at least a "near extinction" event at best. It won't matter what low lying island or mountain top one is inhabiting.

Get to blame the USA for that too!
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Old 24-03-2015, 17:26   #42
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Re: Are the Seas getting more Violent?

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Of course we want facts. As an engineer you are used to dealing with facts and calculations that have wrong and right answers. Climate science deals more in probability. The question is are we causing global warming? The science points to, we probably are. That's not a very good and clean fact. But when it comes to distorting "facts" I think it is wise to look at what motives one might have for distorting scientific assessments, conclusions or at the extreme, actual hard data. I have no idea about Warren Buffet's motives but I wouldn't be surprised if you are right. I think it would be hard to get rich being green.
The best way to really be green is to be buried and let the trees and Bambi be.
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Old 24-03-2015, 17:29   #43
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Re: Are the Seas getting more Violent?

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OK! The prosecution stipulates! But still, really, would you hire a scientist who, by the admission of the announcement, was "controversial?"
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Old 24-03-2015, 17:37   #44
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Re: Are the Seas getting more Violent?

"Many are not blinded by questionable data no matter how well presented at the $1500.00 a plate dinners. If you are teaching what you say is the "evidence" then you are only teaching what YOU want them to learn as far as what is right and correct. There can not be another way though. I understand that.
I feel sorry for my children also. "

I am teaching the science curriculum. If we discover purple cows on the moon, and that is in the curriculum, I will teach it, no matter how crazy it is. But I would like to see some evidence like purple milk. Your children are safe with me.
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Old 24-03-2015, 17:40   #45
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Re: Are the Seas getting more Violent?

Dr Moore is an interesting guy. He's also a lobbyist for the logging and nuclear industries, just sayin'.

But we play by the Al Gore rules here, right? where since Gore makes the occasional buck speaking about the climate, he's the anti-Christ. Same rules would therefore disqualify Moore, I suspect. I await the judges' ruling...
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