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Old 08-11-2010, 13:12   #91
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In 1978, Ethiopia and Somalia reached a peace agreement. In 1980, with peace secured, the
United States signed a formal, ten-year base rights agreement with Somalia.[
55] Subsequently,
the United States provided military assistance to Somalia, essentially in exchange for the right to
establish air and naval bases within Somalia’s borders. The United States brokered the
agreement in order to counter the significant Soviet presence in Ethiopia.[
56] It is also apparent
that the substantial U.S. military assistance and FMS transactions with Somalia in the 1980s were
evidence of America’s intention to "fill the vacuum created by the Soviet Union’s departure" [from
Somalia]. [
57] The peace, however, did not last; in 1982, Ethiopian troops attacked Somalia.
As shown in
Figure 3, the Reagan Administration responded to the invasion by airlifting significant
amounts of military equipment to Somalia via military assistance and FMS sales.[
58] It is also
important to note that the purpose of the U.S. aid to Somalia was not just to repel the Sovietsupported
invasion, but was also intended to gain influence with the Somali leadership. In 1984,
Somalia experienced the severe drought that was plaguing the entire region. The drought and a
cyclone each caused significant hardship on the Somali people. Data trends in
Figure 3 show that
increases in assistance by both the United States and Italy appear to be pragmatic and reactive
in nature, following major events such as war with Ethiopia and the 1984 natural disasters.
The United States sold approximately $50 million (constant 2007 USD) in total FMS sales to
Ethiopia and approximately $260 million (constant 2007 USD) in total FMS sales to Somalia from
1950-2007. The reason for the increase in FMS transactions beginning in 1987 was that Somalia
and Ethiopia resumed fighting that year.
Figure 3 further shows that during the 1989-1991
timeframe, the United States sold a higher total dollar value of weapons to Somalia through FMS

transactions than the total spent on economic and military assistance.

our tax dollars at work,ie this generation
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Old 08-11-2010, 13:33   #92
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This is really getting off topic.

That always seems to happen when there's nothing more to be said about the original topic, and people see a need to continue the thread by posting their fondly-held opinions and beliefs about laws, governments, politicians, bureaucrats, the military, oppressed minorities, industrial fat cats, colonial imperialism, and the like.

You all know what happens when Pirate threads go off topic, political and ranting.
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Old 08-11-2010, 13:48   #93
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If every yacht was required to pack firepower as part of its insurance policy, word would get out. And if there was a legal 'safe zone' or somesuch that, once violated, permitted the target vessel to defend themselves proactively rather than waiting for the AK-47's to open up at point blank range, it would deter many of these 'pirates.' I'm not saying it makes attacks impossible, but nobody wants to take fire, especially at the likely small ransom they can collect off a yacht.
Really? An AK-47? Really? Considering their fire power and the number of people and boats one would need at least a 50 cal; possibly two or a 50 cal and a grenade launcher. One or even two AK-47s would not do the job.

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Old 08-11-2010, 13:54   #94
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Yes if all you want to do is cross the atlantic, No, if you want to go to the Med, cause youll be visiting brazil first if you go via Table mountain.

The historic way to defeat pirates, is to use a convoy system. I feel well have to get a fairly large number of Yachts together and request and/or pay for naval protection. Red Sea ARC anyone??

Dave
The convoy system has actually been working. Fatty Goodlander had an article on it not long ago.

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Old 08-11-2010, 14:04   #95
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passive resistance,simple yet effective

October 25, 2010 -- Updated 1910 GMT (0310 HKT)

A cargo ship owned by Beluga Shipping was seized by pirates. The ship was freed Monday.



STORY HIGHLIGHTS
  • The vessel MV Beluga Fortune was held captive for one day
  • Crew locked themselves in a panic room, shipping firm CEO says
  • Naval forces come to rescue as crew of 16 unharmed
(CNN) -- A cargo ship seized by Somali pirates off the coast of Kenya was freed Monday after one day under siege, and the German-based Beluga Shipping company said its crew of 16 was unharmed.
The pirates were thwarted after the crew of the MV Beluga Fortune locked themselves in a panic room and switched off the main engine, cut off the fuel supply, blocked the bridge and reported the Indian Ocean attack to military forces, said Niels Stolberg, president and CEO of Beluga Shipping GmbH.
The pirates, seeking a million-dollar ransom, were unable to maintain control of the vessel, and naval forces were able to come to the rescue, Stolberg said in a statement. The vessel continued its journey to Richards Bay, South Africa.
"The excellent behavior of our colleagues on board made such a swift and happy ending of the capture possible," Stolberg said.
Now that is a plan!

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Old 08-11-2010, 14:48   #96
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Really? An AK-47? Really? Considering their fire power and the number of people and boats one would need at least a 50 cal; possibly two or a 50 cal and a grenade launcher. One or even two AK-47s would not do the job.

Maje
I've been specifically instructed not to continue a discussion of this nature in this thread, so I'll refrain from doing so.

I will say, in general, if a military craft with military personnel and a full-on military arsenal approach you with intent to harm, you're FUBAR.

I will also say, in general, that this is clearly NOT the case in these attacks. It is generally 1-4 small skiffs with reasonably big outboards, and 2-4 'pirates' per skiff, generally with a weapon each.

This is not akin to having the USA military roll up on you with Navy SEALS. This is akin to being gang mugged in a ghetto/barrio back alley. Equivalent countermeasures are all that is required, not anti-military level countermeasures.
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Old 08-11-2010, 15:53   #97
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Does anyone actualy think that the merchant ships, and pleasure yachters that are being hijacked actualy had anything to do with what the early colonial powers did?
The fact that the actual powers/people are not around doesn't stop certain groups for asking for reparations.

I believe that the colonial powers interupted the natural development of Africa and parts of the Middle East. However, since WWII the super powers did the same thing to, sometimes, worse effect. However, the fact is that all pirates are pirates because it is lucrative. It doesn't matter if it was the Vikings, the Barbery pirates, Blackbeard or the current group. Even in wealthy countries there are pirates whether they are on land or sea. That said, the problem in Somalia would probably be not quite so bad if the country had a government and/or education and jobs.

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Old 08-11-2010, 16:37   #98
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I would take a guess that it is the most mature oceanic trade area. And, local pirates have been capitalizing on the geographic bottle-neck for millenniums.

The Oracle of Appolo at Didyma advises regarding a piracy career - "do as your forefathers did".
But, the Oracle of Appolo at Delphi advises to use violence against pirates...
Therefore go round, or bring a .50 cal rifle...

But even in New York its not safe.
I was rammed by a Somalian today.
He drove his bloody cab into my nice new car. However, he and his passengers had the audacity to suggest it was my fault. After an hour long "discussion" regarding police, lawyers, insurance forms, increased premiums - we agreed to fix our own cars - shook hands and departed before the cops showed up...
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Old 08-11-2010, 17:08   #99
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The convoy system has actually been working. Fatty Goodlander had an article on it not long ago.

Maje

I read that.

I noted that no one was attacked by pirates.

I also noted that when a boat was seen approaching most did not follow the plan and panicked.

So a convoy went through unscathed, yet "un attacked".

Not much info there for me.

Mark???
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Old 08-11-2010, 17:25   #100
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Originally Posted by Tom and Maje View Post
The convoy system has actually been working. Fatty Goodlander had an article on it not long ago.

Maje
Quote:
Originally Posted by Therapy View Post
I read that.

I noted that no one was attacked by pirates.

I also noted that when a boat was seen approaching most did not follow the plan and panicked.

So a convoy went through unscathed, yet "un attacked".

Not much info there for me.

Mark???
Can someone point me to this article?
If you could, that would be great!

Thanks,
Extemp.
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Old 08-11-2010, 17:45   #101
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Can someone point me to this article?
If you could, that would be great!

Thanks,
Extemp.
I think that only one person panicked. It is in one of this summer's Cruising Worlds.

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Old 08-11-2010, 17:46   #102
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Extemp,

A month or a few ago. I don't have the mag any more.

Cruisers World.

edit> I think this is it.

http://www.cruisingworld.com/destina...000085257.html
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Old 08-11-2010, 18:08   #103
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I think that only one person panicked. It is in one of this summer's Cruising Worlds.

Maje

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Old 08-11-2010, 19:07   #104
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Extemp,

A month or a few ago. I don't have the mag any more.

Cruisers World.

edit> I think this is it.

Tiptoe Through the Pirates - Cruising World
Thanks,
Scary stuff!!
I read this (A Cruel Twist of Fate - Cruising World) also while I was there. Amazing!!

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Old 08-11-2010, 19:18   #105
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Extemp,

A month or a few ago. I don't have the mag any more.

Cruisers World.

edit> I think this is it.

Tiptoe Through the Pirates - Cruising World
Thanks for that, It still does not make me feel better about going that way.
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