Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 25-12-2007, 01:59   #16
Registered User
 
Celestialsailor's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In Mexico, working on the boat
Boat: Hallberg Rassy 35. and 14ft.Whitehall pulling skiff.
Posts: 8,013
Images: 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkJ View Post
Yes. Its called courage.

And no, its not easy. But if we threw in the towel the first time a bully hit us we would given life away in Kindy.


cour·age (kūr'ĭj, kŭr'-)
n.
The state or quality of mind or spirit that enables one to face danger, fear, or vicissitudes with self-possession, confidence, and resolution; bravery.
Unless you have been through the same I question such a blanket statement.
__________________

__________________
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming: Wow - what a ride!"

http://wwwjolielle.blogspot.com/
Celestialsailor is offline  
Old 25-12-2007, 08:42   #17
CF Adviser
Moderator Emeritus
 
Hud3's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Virginia
Boat: Island Packet 380, now sold
Posts: 8,929
Images: 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanani View Post
The tourist dept isn't really concened about "Yacht traffic". They care about hotel and cruise ship traffic. I wouldn't waste my energy. This is truely a 3rd World Country. They just don't operate on the same priorities that you may be acustomed to. For the most part, you may give some of the employees a bit of ammusement. If that's your goal, go for it.
Kanani,

That might still be true on St Vincent, but I know for a fact that many of the islands are realizing that "yacht tourism", as they call it, is second only to "hotel tourism" in bringing economic benefits to the islands, and well ahead of cruise ships.

An example: the yachting-related trade organizations, Chris Doyle, the Caribbean Compass, and yacht charter companies, as well as individual yacht owners, managed to get the Advanced Passenger Information System monster turned around in short order by concerted communications with the islands' tourism bodies and immigration officials. They all spoke out loudly and were heard, even in St Vincent, where APIS enforcement for small yachts was recinded.

I know from my own personal discussions with high level officials here on Nevis that they take the views of visiting yachtsmen very seriously. They are trying to actively encourage yachts to visit our island.

It doesn't cost much time to write a polite, well-reasoned letter. Anyone with a genuine concern about security in St Vincent should write to Vida Bernard at tourism@vincysurf.com


__________________

__________________
Hud
Hud3 is offline  
Old 25-12-2007, 09:19   #18
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 497
Images: 1
this guy had buckets of courage

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkJ View Post
Yes. Its called courage.

And no, its not easy. But if we threw in the towel the first time a bully hit us we would given life away in Kindy.


cour·age (kūr'ĭj, kŭr'-)
n.
The state or quality of mind or spirit that enables one to face danger, fear, or vicissitudes with self-possession, confidence, and resolution; bravery.
Jeez Mark, if ya read Swagman's blog it's pretty clear this guy had buckets of courage, he took on 3 guys who were armed. That's how he got his head opened up. He is the personification of courage.
__________________
jdoe71 is offline  
Old 25-12-2007, 09:48   #19
Registered User
 
conrad's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2006
Boat: Flicka
Posts: 24
Send a message via AIM to conrad
Thanks Hud for the {POSITIVE) response. Very bad situation and WE all need to at least try to help rectify it. Laughing to myself what some consider armpits. I have been to the Grenadines several times and had great experiences Bad things can happen anywhere. Merry Christmas to all..........sympathies to the young couple who suffered and hope they do not give up sailing
__________________
I never plan on dying: So Far So Good!
conrad is offline  
Old 25-12-2007, 11:13   #20
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Southern California
Boat: Was - Passport 45 Ketch
Posts: 837
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hud3 View Post
Kanani,

That might still be true on St Vincent, but I know for a fact that many of the islands are realizing that "yacht tourism", as they call it, is second only to "hotel tourism" in bringing economic benefits to the islands, and well ahead of cruise ships.

An example: the yachting-related trade organizations, Chris Doyle, the Caribbean Compass, and yacht charter companies, as well as individual yacht owners, managed to get the Advanced Passenger Information System monster turned around in short order by concerted communications with the islands' tourism bodies and immigration officials. They all spoke out loudly and were heard, even in St Vincent, where APIS enforcement for small yachts was recinded.

I know from my own personal discussions with high level officials here on Nevis that they take the views of visiting yachtsmen very seriously. They are trying to actively encourage yachts to visit our island.

It doesn't cost much time to write a polite, well-reasoned letter. Anyone with a genuine concern about security in St Vincent should write to Vida Bernard at tourism@vincysurf.com

The mentality on that island is not what one might be accustomed to in your local American community. Any attention that might be brought about by a bunch of letters pooring in WILL be viewed as arrogance and "control tactics" by the locals.

Those people do not like it (putting it mildly) when outsiders come in and try to tell them how to act or react.

Do what you want but IMHO.....there is no "Upside" to barraging them with foreign opinions about how they should run their country. Although.....being Americans....that's what we are famous for....
__________________
Kanani is offline  
Old 25-12-2007, 12:00   #21
Registered User
 
Yotboss's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: San Diego/Mexico
Boat: TPI Lagoon 42
Posts: 63
Images: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanani View Post
there is no "Upside" to barraging them with foreign opinions about how they should run their country. Although.....being Americans....that's what we are famous for....

Perhaps barraging them with foreign opinions about how to act like friggin' HUMANS by not attacking visitors with machetes would be OK, ya think? I'll gladly be famous for that.
__________________
Yotboss is offline  
Old 25-12-2007, 12:49   #22
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 217
Thumbs down

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanani View Post

Do what you want but IMHO.....there is no "Upside" to barraging them with foreign opinions about how they should run their country. Although.....being Americans....that's what we are famous for....
Kan, I really think you would be happier sailing under another flag. I'm sure there are a number of countries that would welcome you and your distaste for my country; besides, think of all the anti-americanism you would personally avoid being the target of, hell, you could cross the aisle and immerse yourself with like minded souls..join the chorus so to speak. ...sounds like a real plan.

And yes, I say 'my' country, I've fought for it, I've defended it, and I've spilled a whole bunch of blood for it, some of it mine. My dues are paid up, so excuse me if I exercise my right to speak my mind. In any event, unlike a lot of countries, you're free to leave at any time....so...bon voyage. Oh, you might avoid St. Vincent for the time being tho..
__________________
Seeratlas is offline  
Old 25-12-2007, 13:01   #23
Registered User
 
Celestialsailor's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In Mexico, working on the boat
Boat: Hallberg Rassy 35. and 14ft.Whitehall pulling skiff.
Posts: 8,013
Images: 5
I think we are all entitled to our opinions here. I certainly respect everyones even if I do not agree. Many here have experiences in these islands and have drawn their own conclusions. They have that right. I can agree or disagree and make my own decisions if I want to visit them or not. It is not neccessary to belittle them.
__________________
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming: Wow - what a ride!"

http://wwwjolielle.blogspot.com/
Celestialsailor is offline  
Old 25-12-2007, 13:08   #24
Senior Cruiser
 
Therapy's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: W Florida
Boat: The Jon boat still, plus a 2007 SeaCat.
Posts: 6,894
Images: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanani View Post
The mentality on that island is not what one might be accustomed to in your local American community. Any attention that might be brought about by a bunch of letters pooring in WILL be viewed as arrogance and "control tactics" by the locals.


....
I believe that.

The only real thing would be to simply bypass the the country.

No visits by cruising yachties or charters till things change. Wait.......how would we know there were changes.............OK Mark..........you go (and take a scantily clad hot chick with you) and let us know how it is...........

But if their economy suffers then they will become hungrier and more desperate and it will get even worse............What to do, what to do.....

Did they offend someone and are then "put into the hat" for further "teaching" like the ones that get their lines cut?


I have not started a list of such things but security along the way will certainly be a part of the Trip planning. If I have to go from secure marina to secure marina then I won't go.

And when was the last charter couple attacked (and hacked) in the US for money. Is that because the poor are not that poor, or desperate, or..........OMG don't say it................Don't..................Arrrgghhh h.................many US yachts are known to contain firearms (OMG, I said it)

I will postulate one thing though, and this is it.

These folks know if one can own a boat and cruise or charter one of those fabulous yachts, then one is rich beyond belief (theirs). They know you have cash and lots of it. A years worth for sure, maybe several and at small risk.
That is all they want, really. If they take something else it is only to turn into cash. OK, a few baubles they might wear but not if they still live with their mothers, you can bet.
So then............, If this guy had simply surrendered the cash etc instead of counter-attacking ( I am saying boarding is a form of attack) then it would have been simply robbery. He over reacted (with too much courage) and it all became much more traumatic.
__________________
Therapy is offline  
Old 25-12-2007, 13:09   #25
Long Range Cruiser
 
MarkJ's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Australian living on "Sea Life" currently in England.
Boat: Beneteau 393 "Sea Life"
Posts: 12,828
Images: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdoe71 View Post
this guy had buckets of courage, he took on 3 guys who were armed. That's how he got his head opened up. He is the personification of courage.
Hi Jode71
Yes, no doubt. I wasnt having a crack at this guy at all. My posts were about something different

Mark
__________________
MarkJ is offline  
Old 25-12-2007, 13:28   #26
Senior Cruiser
 
Therapy's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: W Florida
Boat: The Jon boat still, plus a 2007 SeaCat.
Posts: 6,894
Images: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkJ View Post
Hi Jode71
Yes, no doubt. I wasnt having a crack at this guy at all. My posts were about something different

Mark
I guess I (and some others I am sure) don't understand what you were saying.

You must have a wife that is amazing (or really NOT-NORMAL) if you think someone would continue the rest of the vacation after something like that.

I can tell you if that happened to me and my wife, the wife would never (that means "not ever, no F**k**g way, You got that....") do it again. And IF I had the "courage" to do it again I would be armed to the teeth with "legal" weapons and training. We are back to the revenge thing..............I hear it can be sweet. I don't know though. I am a sissy!!
__________________
Therapy is offline  
Old 25-12-2007, 13:52   #27
Long Range Cruiser
 
MarkJ's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Australian living on "Sea Life" currently in England.
Boat: Beneteau 393 "Sea Life"
Posts: 12,828
Images: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Therapy View Post
OK Mark..........you go (and take a scantily clad hot chick with you) and let us know how it is...........
LOL No thanks!

My point was about recovering from trauma, it had nothing to do with anything else



Quote:
Originally Posted by Therapy View Post
part of the Trip planning.
Absolutly! They might have white sand and palm trees but that doesnt mean we have to go there. And anyone can research these places on the net in 2 seconds flat.
Writing a letter to their government telling them to clean up their security can come from anyone of any nationality. The letter doesnt have to have a flag on it

Quote:
Originally Posted by Therapy View Post
These folks know if one can own a boat and cruise or charter one of those fabulous yachts, then one is rich beyond belief (theirs). They know you have cash and lots of it.
On Christmas eve we looked at an exhibition of aerial photos of poverty stricken countries. One was of Shantytown, Haiti, which is one of the poorest countries on earth, plus its one of the most violent with more than 100 people murdered every month. The country is run by thugs and lives off drug running.

At the other end of the Caribbean, closer to St Vincent is one of the worlds great hot-spots of anti-americanism, plus a pack of poor people, in a crumbling economy ruled by a dictator, venezuela.
And in between, a string of islands where some residents don't notice the paradise, only that they are poor and theres some vision of wealth in a white shiney boat anchored a few hundred yards away.

Yes, in the world there's poverty, abject poverty and violent poverty all with varing levels of hate mixed in.

Good trip planning, an action plan on being attacked, and ability to recover from the adversities and carry on cruisin' are just some of the things we need

Mark
__________________
MarkJ is offline  
Old 25-12-2007, 14:00   #28
Armchair Bucketeer
 
David_Old_Jersey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,013
Images: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seeratlas View Post
Kan, I really think you would be happier sailing under another flag. I'm sure there are a number of countries that would welcome you and your distaste for my country; besides, think of all the anti-americanism you would personally avoid being the target of, hell, you could cross the aisle and immerse yourself with like minded souls..join the chorus so to speak. ...sounds like a real plan.

And yes, I say 'my' country, I've fought for it, I've defended it, and I've spilled a whole bunch of blood for it, some of it mine. My dues are paid up, so excuse me if I exercise my right to speak my mind. In any event, unlike a lot of countries, you're free to leave at any time....so...bon voyage. Oh, you might avoid St. Vincent for the time being tho..
Not sure exactly what you read in Kan's post to elicit that response .......whilst I agree with Kan that many folk in 3rd world countries do tend to be hypersensitive to any hint of being told what to do by their richer counterparts I disagree that writing a (polite and constructive) letter or two will offend or make things worse. But not to say that any letters will make a blind bit of difference!....but yer never know........

Although I have never been to St Vincent, my experiance in the 3rd world is that their IS always a price to be paid for yer Pound / dollar going quite so far - it's cos' the locals are poor, even in their terms. Doesn't make what happened to this couple excusable or right - just an economic consequence. When going "abroad" it is always useful to know a bit more about the landscape than the brochure says, but, just like at home sometimes, yer just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Would having a gun ended in a "better" result? If the boarding party were armed then IMO quite possibly not.....in any event a few cuts, some lost valuables on insurance in exchange for a story to dine out on for a few years seems fair enough to me.
__________________
David_Old_Jersey is offline  
Old 25-12-2007, 14:05   #29
Armchair Bucketeer
 
David_Old_Jersey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,013
Images: 4
Oh yeah, I forgot to add......they should get some "counselling" as well
__________________
David_Old_Jersey is offline  
Old 25-12-2007, 14:12   #30
Registered User
 
Celestialsailor's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In Mexico, working on the boat
Boat: Hallberg Rassy 35. and 14ft.Whitehall pulling skiff.
Posts: 8,013
Images: 5
The poverty issue is a strange thing actually. While these countries being discussed here have a direct correlation between poverty and crime, it is somewhat different in South East Asia. I'm not saying completely but the poor there at least seem to have self respect and dignity. Work for what they can and discourage dishonesty in their family.
There is plenty of places to go with your vessel. We do not have to visit these places where known crime is. What is the point of having to look over your shoulder and trying to relax
__________________

__________________
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming: Wow - what a ride!"

http://wwwjolielle.blogspot.com/
Celestialsailor is offline  
Closed Thread

Tags
piracy, St Vincent and Grenadines

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
St Vincent - Barefoot Yacht Charters NW Craig Other 43 15-02-2017 15:46
St Vincent & the Grenadines Lightfin Atlantic & the Caribbean 7 27-01-2008 19:07
MOB case historys thread deepblueme Health, Safety & Related Gear 1 08-12-2007 13:23
GPS tracking in case of theft SVLiv Marine Electronics 18 28-09-2007 12:27
St. Lucia ? St. Vincent ? Grenada ? danedee Atlantic & the Caribbean 10 26-06-2007 00:26



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 15:37.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.