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Old 15-08-2013, 06:55   #91
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Re: Another Crew Loses their Sailboat

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Originally Posted by MarkJ View Post
Except sailing.

Often times people who refit for years never go sailing. One doesnt learn how to sail in a dockyard.

(...)
Yep.

It does not matter how well the boat is prepared or fitted out if her driver does not have adequate sailing skills (best), plenty of common sense (may help) or luck (may help, but usually does not).

Lear to sail THEN get a sound boat, then go.

b.
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Old 15-08-2013, 07:50   #92
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Re: Another Crew Loses their Sailboat

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Lear to sail THEN get a sound boat, then go.

b.
Australian boat called "Tookawhile" because it took 13 years to build. Then the owner was sea sick on the first cruise and sold the boat a few moonths after it was launched. Friends of mine bought it at a very low price.
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Old 15-08-2013, 20:11   #93
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Old 15-08-2013, 22:55   #94
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I have no problem walking over to some idiot with a crappy boat and trying to convince him that he should do more sailing and stop futzing with the wifi extender and replace his chainplates.
Wow, I'm sure happy I'm in a different ocean than you and will most likely never meet!
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Old 16-08-2013, 01:51   #95
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Wow, I'm sure happy I'm in a different ocean than you and will most likely never meet!
Me too!!!!
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Old 16-08-2013, 02:21   #96
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I'm not a salty sailor, I'm just an average one
BUT as the skipper I will never asked somebody to study a chart for me.
I study the chart myself, ALWAYS, no exeption.
Seriously? That's a pretty dangerous attitude! Hopefully you would ask the other person, maybe even every one on board, to look over the chart and at least become familiar with it incase, oh I don't know, your incapacitated...
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Old 16-08-2013, 02:25   #97
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Seriously? That's a pretty dangerous attitude! Hopefully you would ask the other person, maybe even every one on board, to look over the chart and at least become familiar with it incase, oh I don't know, your incapacitated...
You understood perfectly well what was meant here, so don't play games here.
What I meant was that I study the chart, not getting someone else doing it instead of me like it was suggested in that post I answered to. I was not saying that I prohibited others to study them.
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Old 16-08-2013, 02:39   #98
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You understood perfectly well what was meant here, so don't play games here.
I I will not play games here! Any time I do my posts get deleted. (No disrespect intended towards the moderators. I know they have a job to do).

I must have misunderstood the context of the original post so my sincerest apologies for misrepresenting what you said.

The more educated everyone on board is the safer!
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Old 17-08-2013, 07:58   #99
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Re: Another Crew Loses their Sailboat

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Originally Posted by rebel heart View Post
I have no problem walking over to some idiot with a crappy boat and trying to convince him that he should do more sailing and stop futzing with the wifi extender and replace his chainplates.
Quote:
Originally Posted by funjohnson View Post
Wow, I'm sure happy I'm in a different ocean than you and will most likely never meet!
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Old 17-08-2013, 08:38   #100
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Re: Another Crew Loses their Sailboat

I actually quite like sailing idiots and I find them a much more entertaining company than that of decent cruisers.

Just think of it people claim now they retire now they will taste real life, get it by the balls, now is the time ... BUT off course they have a +40', new, fully insured boat with bow-thruster and ....

I like the adventure part of sailing, the challenge, the weakness and how each of us attempts to overcome theirs. There is no place for growing if you go 100% ready, 100% insured, 100% booked.

So, count me yet another sailing idiot and BEWARE. For one that made it may inspire a dozen followers.

PS The good news: sailing idiots tend to prefer offshore where they busy themselves sinking their ill conceived boats - providing a romantic background for otherwise plain and uninspiring reality of cruising.

b.
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Old 17-08-2013, 09:01   #101
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There are standards in place by governments to determine who should be allowed to captain a vessel with paying passengers. There are standards in place for all the other various crew positions. There are standards for equipment, construction, maintenance, and operating procedures.

These standards to not guarantee safety, but one only has to look at the record of (as an example) US sport fishers versus ones in Mexico.

It's really not that hard to say "you should have sufficient experience, you should have a rig capable of the conditions you will encounter, the boat shouldn't break, and you should have enough safety gear to support a rescue."

In the professional maritime world, in the US, there is little ambiguity and it is spelled out in the Code of Federal Regulations. A lot in there pertains to individual pleasure craft as well.

So as much as I'd like to get "it's all relative man!" and just let whatever happen, I have no problem walking over to some idiot with a crappy boat and trying to convince him that he should do more sailing and stop futzing with the wifi extender and replace his chainplates.
This is misleading , firstly we sail in small boats , that are not professionally maintained, so maintenance is a function of available cash and expertise, both of which may be lacking

Secondly, we sail in a medium that can overwhelm the finest prepared boat. The Sea will always break things.

Thirdly. So called professional training doesn't make anyone a professional , some of the standards at sea , amongst merchant men are quite frankly appalling.

Dave
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Old 17-08-2013, 09:02   #102
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Australian boat called "Tookawhile" because it took 13 years to build. Then the owner was sea sick on the first cruise and sold the boat a few moonths after it was launched. Friends of mine bought it at a very low price.
There are boat builders and boat sailors , there are very very few builder sailors

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Old 17-08-2013, 09:18   #103
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Re: Another Crew Loses their Sailboat

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(...)

Secondly, we sail in a medium that can overwhelm the finest prepared boat. The Sea will always break things.

(...)
Yes. But something is telling me the less than finest prepared boat suffers more often than the finest prepared one. (?)

The sea will break things, starting with the weakest ones.

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Old 24-08-2013, 10:28   #104
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Re: Another Crew Loses their Sailboat

Im a relatively new sailor, a year in and i have read thousands of pages on sailing theoryl anchoring, boathandling, wave theory, storm techniques, drogues, circumnavigation, sai shape, navigation.

I sail in a tough area to learn to sail as in the sunlight im guaranteed to encounter 20+ kt winds just leaving the harbour (thermals). One day out on the water with a totally wrong weather forecast and a green crew i got knocked down in 50 kt gusts with a 150 genoa up and winched tight on a close haul.

It was terrifying but i kept it cool enough that the green crew thought we were having a marvelous time. The problem was with the boat heeled over so bad i couldnt grab the jibsheet to ease it and lift the boat because there was danger ofnme, the only person aboard with a clue, falling forwards into the water. We made it home fine that day and i didnt tell the crew how dangerous it was until we were tied up at the docks and i had a stiff rum and coke in my hand.

If i hadnt read all of that material i may not have known how to avoid the broach. The rudder was starting to lose helm and we could have ended up beam to wind.

Books are no substitute for experience but having the theory stuffed away in your cranium isnt a bad idea. Ive talked to other boaters who never bothered to learn about wave theory and have caught themselves in some nasty waves that would have been relatively easy to predict with a little understanding of wave theory for example. (2 kt ebb tide current with a fresh onshore breeze, 25nm fetch, means roughly 6 ft short period chop - an 18 ft powerboat should not have been there). Its been helpful to me.

That said the thousands of pages ive read doesnt mean i should just set sail and hit blue water either. Like any skill there is theory and experince. People who come up to me and talk about crossing oceans or chartering to go around the carribean i tell them to buy a small boat like mine and do short coastal runs and do longer and longer trips to buold experience first. Most of them have come back and told me they took my advice and are loving it.

I dont think the.premise of some posters in this and other threads that "they are not ready to go offshore" is some judgemental detriment to people taking life by the balls and just doing it. Sure if i wanted to gain experience mountainclimbing i could start with everest and if i survived i would gain a lot of experience, but i could also end up turning back or dying in the process. Or i could start with some smaller less challenging local mountains and woek my way up.

I think in the interests of safety the latter is the route to go and by the time you made everest you would have a much lower chance of dying and a much higher chance of making it.

That said, i guess we need to appease the darwinists. Some people refuse to take good advice and those that make it have a great tale to tell and those that dont... Well increase the quality.of the local gene pool.
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Old 24-08-2013, 10:55   #105
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Re: Another Crew Loses their Sailboat

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Originally Posted by Alecadi View Post
I'm not a salty sailor, I'm just an average one
BUT as the skipper I will never asked somebody to study a chart for me.
I study the chart myself, ALWAYS, no exeption.

I didn't say I did NOT study the chart. I did ask that he do it as well. We were both just learning, and both very eager, but I always ask anyone with me to study the charts as well if we're doing anything other than a day sail.

I knew exactly where we were and what the danger was. He had not looked at the chart and he did not know that. That's why he didn't want me to turn toward the Yucutan peninsula even though it improved *everything.* He didn't know about lee shores, and he didn't realize how far the shallows went out at that spot. There would have been a lot less friction if he had looked at the chart.

It's all good, but he'll never sail with me again.
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