Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 08-04-2014, 03:09   #766
Registered User
 
SimonV's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Brisbane, Australia.
Posts: 1,316
Re: Alpha 42 "Be Good Too" rescue 300 miles off Cape Henry Merged

Oops wrong thread.
Sent from my GT-N7105T using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
__________________

__________________
Simon

https://svgoodonya.blogspot.com.au/
SimonV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2014, 03:27   #767
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,441
Re: Alpha 42 "Be Good Too" rescue 300 miles off Cape Henry Merged

Well, it's academic, Ann, for US flagged vessels.

In February 2007, the U.S. First Circuit Court of Appeals in Boston granted the U.S. Coast Guard the authority to force a master to abandon ship if, in the judgment of the Coast Guardsmen on scene, the vessel is in imminent peril.

In the case which established this precedent, the master of a 144' fishing vessel had radioed the USCG to see if they would supply him some pumps. Some of the crew requested to be transferred to the USCG vessels when they arrived with the pump.

The vessel's captain at no time issued a Mayday, as he and other key crew members intended to stay with the boat and execute an apparently workable plan to control the ingress of water. (Involving closing off watertight doors confining the flooding to two compartments at the stern, having now been able to confirm that the damage was confined to those compartments)

The USCG refused to discuss this and ordered the remaining crew to abandon. The vessel's captain testified in court that he was told "if he did not cooperate, the Coast Guard would "subdue [him] physically" in order to take him off"

Consequently the vessel sank in a matter of hours, and the vessel's owner (who had been denied the opportunity to get salvage tugs to possibly save the vessel) sued the Coast Guard, alleging, in part, that the Coast Guard had acted outside its authority by forcing the evacuation.

The U.S. Department of Justice, which represented the Coast Guard, argued that Congress has granted the Coast Guard complete discretion in how it conducts its search-and-rescue operations. A district court judge agreed. The boat's owner appealed.

With one quite strongly worded dissenting opinion, that appeal was denied 2 to 1.

So that's where things stand, presumably unless Congress decides to clip the USCG's powers. Which I, for one, cannot see them having any enthusiasm for.
__________________

__________________
Andrew Troup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2014, 03:30   #768
Moderator
 
JPA Cate's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: aboard, cruising in Australia
Boat: Sayer 46' Solent rig sloop
Posts: 10,719
Re: Alpha 42 "Be Good Too" rescue 300 miles off Cape Henry Merged

Andrew:

Sacre bleu!

And understood.

Thanks.

Ann
__________________
Ann, with Jim, aboard US s/v Insatiable II, in Oz, very long term cruisers
JPA Cate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2014, 06:21   #769
Moderator
 
HappyMdRSailor's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2008
Location: North Mississippi
Boat: 48 Wauquiez Pilot Saloon-C22 Chrysler Sunpiper- 19 Potter-Preparing to cruise w/my girl
Posts: 5,980
Re: Alpha 42 "Be Good Too" rescue 300 miles off Cape Henry Merged

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
For sure! It does look a bit hen-house, even to me! And I did note that the reinforcement on the outboard side looked a bit off, but I don't have any standards to judge by. One does hope that they used MIL spec cinder blocks...

Thanks for the comments.

Jim
Jim... How about an ASTM standard for concrete block???
(attached and boooooring!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
Andrew:

Sacre bleu!

And understood.

Thanks.

Ann
Ann,

Reading from the actual transcript of the appeal, the phrase :

"Sucks Donkey"

Appears repeatedly....
Attached Files
File Type: pdf C 55 - 03 Concrete Block.pdf (25.0 KB, 34 views)
__________________
In the harsh marine environment, something is always in need of repair...

Mai Tai's fix everything...
HappyMdRSailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2014, 06:32   #770
Registered User
 
AussieGeoff's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: South Australia
Posts: 218
Re: Alpha 42 "Be Good Too" rescue 300 miles off Cape Henry Merged

I don't know if the US has some oddball sidestep of this, but to the best of my knowledge a Mayday call is, by definition, a signal stating that 'the vessel and personnel are in grave and imminent danger and require immediate assistance.'

Period.

Nothing about dropping responsibilities as master, in fact as I understand it, the onus is on the master to ensure the safety of all aboard and that doesn't change just because he/she sent a Mayday, in fact, if anything, that means he/she is going to be very busy, because make no mistake, after the dust settles and it's time for the inevitable investigation, if someone doesn't come home, the master will need to demonstrate he/she did everything humanly possible to ensure that person's safety or they will be found culpable.

AussieGeoff
__________________
AussieGeoff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2014, 06:42   #771
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,441
Re: Alpha 42 "Be Good Too" rescue 300 miles off Cape Henry Merged

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
Andrew:

Sacre bleu!

And understood.

Thanks.

Ann
There's probably a biblical verse which covers this.

I know, that short one.
John something something. (11-35 ... Thanks, Google!)
__________________
Andrew Troup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2014, 22:23   #772
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Oregon, USA
Boat: Shuttleworth Advantage 43
Posts: 200
Re: Alpha 42 "Be Good Too" rescue 300 miles off Cape Henry Merged

The May 2014 SAIL Magazine has a 4 page article by the crew about the abandonment of Alpha 42 "Be Good Too", including a sidebar "Battle of the Armchair Admirals" addressing some of the criticisms and conjectures made in forums. Good reading.
- Rusty
__________________
rgesner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2014, 07:53   #773
Eternal Member

Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 848
Re: Alpha 42 "Be Good Too" rescue 300 miles off Cape Henry Merged

Quote:
Originally Posted by rgesner View Post
The May 2014 SAIL Magazine has a 4 page article by the crew about the abandonment of Alpha 42 "Be Good Too", including a sidebar "Battle of the Armchair Admirals" addressing some of the criticisms and conjectures made in forums. Good reading.
- Rusty
Yeah, Charlie toned down that sidebar, a bit... I suppose yours truly should be somewhat disappointed at not belng elevated to the status of an Armchair Admiral, after having been singled out as one of the preeminent "Baying Dogs of the Internet"...

:-))

BE GOOD TOO: Answering Critics | Sailfeed
__________________
Jon Eisberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-05-2014, 12:09   #774
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2011
Boat: Conser 47
Posts: 61
Re: Alpha 42 "Be Good Too" rescue 300 miles off Cape Henry Merged

I had a similar situation with an engine not staring during rough weather a few years back on my first off shore trip. The engine would not turn over. It turned out that waves had slowly pushed water in the exhaust hose filling the water separator and backing up into the cylinder with an open exhaust valve. This bound up the engine since you can not compress water.The starter overheated burning it out and creating an electric smell. This may be what happened on Be Good Too.
If the engine does not start right up you could have this problem. Don't keep trying to start it.The answer is when offshore during rough weather when the wind noise drowns out the sound of a cranking engine to send a crew member closer to the engine being start to ensure it is cranking. If it is not cranking you need to remove the exhaust hose and dump the water into the bilge. The remove either the glow plugs or injectors and crank the engine with the fuel shut off. It is messy so cover the openings with a rag. Then reassemble. It will then run but you may have already damaged the connecting rods so you will need to do a compression check.

I have done this repair to get diesels running while hundreds of miles off shore. I increased the rise in the exhaust manifold, added an additional foot to the exhaust loop and installed a ball shutoff valve to prevent water ever backing up in the exhaust again.

Bill
__________________
RunawayC47 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-05-2014, 12:25   #775
Registered User
 
LakeSuperior's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2008
Boat: Teak Yawl, 37'
Posts: 1,581
Images: 7
Re: Alpha 42 "Be Good Too" rescue 300 miles off Cape Henry Merged

Quote:
Originally Posted by RunawayC47 View Post
I had a similar situation with an engine not staring during rough weather a few years back on my first off shore trip. The engine would not turn over. It turned out that waves had slowly pushed water in the exhaust hose filling the water separator and backing up into the cylinder with an open exhaust valve. This bound up the engine since you can not compress water.The starter overheated burning it out and creating an electric smell. This may be what happened on Be Good Too.
If the engine does not start right up you could have this problem. Don't keep trying to start it.The answer is when offshore during rough weather when the wind noise drowns out the sound of a cranking engine to send a crew member closer to the engine being start to ensure it is cranking. If it is not cranking you need to remove the exhaust hose and dump the water into the bilge. The remove either the glow plugs or injectors and crank the engine with the fuel shut off. It is messy so cover the openings with a rag. Then reassemble. It will then run but you may have already damaged the connecting rods so you will need to do a compression check.

I have done this repair to get diesels running while hundreds of miles off shore. I increased the rise in the exhaust manifold, added an additional foot to the exhaust loop and installed a ball shutoff valve to prevent water ever backing up in the exhaust again.

Bill
I think it is unlikely that you could hydraulic lock a good engine in this scenario. The exhaust valve is only open on the upstroke therefore on start the water that drained into the cylinder through the open exhaust valve is pushed out before it closes.

If the exhaust valve is leaky then water could drip into the cylinder when closed and stopped on a different part of the cycle. Then on start you could bend a rod if other cylinders fire. If you are lucky the engine will not be able to turn at all in this case.
__________________
LakeSuperior is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 20-05-2014, 13:19   #776
Moderator
 
Pete7's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Solent, England
Boat: Moody 31
Posts: 8,580
Images: 14
Re: Alpha 42 "Be Good Too" rescue 300 miles off Cape Henry Merged

Quote:
Originally Posted by RunawayC47 View Post
when offshore during rough weather .......remove either the glow plugs or injectors and crank the engine ......it is messy so cover the openings with a rag.........Then reassemble. It will then run but you may have already damaged the connecting rods so you will need to do a compression check....... Bill
Thanks, but if far offshore in rough weather I think I would just carry on sailing. Stripping down engines in rough weather, hmm no thanks.

Pete
__________________
Moody 31 - April Lass
Pete7 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 20-05-2014, 13:25   #777
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2011
Boat: Conser 47
Posts: 61
Re: Alpha 42 "Be Good Too" rescue 300 miles off Cape Henry Merged

I had the motor lock up 3 times and Volvo replaced the engine twice. The certified Volvo mechanic had no idea why water was getting Ito the pistons. Finally Port Engineers in Key Largo fixed the problem. They installed a custom riser extension and found the anti siphon break was in the wrong location.

It definitely can and does happen and you will burn out the starter motor trying to start the engine and smell a burning electrical smell. I believe this is what happened.

Bill
__________________
RunawayC47 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-05-2014, 13:28   #778
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2011
Boat: Conser 47
Posts: 61
Re: Alpha 42 "Be Good Too" rescue 300 miles off Cape Henry Merged

Pete

You need to get the salt water out as soon as possible. It is much easier if you can pull the glow plugs. No messing with diesel fuel.

Luckily I don't get sea sick.

Bill
__________________
RunawayC47 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-05-2014, 15:43   #779
Registered User
 
Cotemar's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2007
Boat: FP, Helia 44 Evo
Posts: 5,717
Re: Alpha 42 "Be Good Too" rescue 300 miles off Cape Henry Merged

Abandoning "Be Good Too" the builder responds.

by Gregor Tarjan, designer of the Aeroyacht ALPHA 42 catamaran "Be Good Too"

ABANDONING BE GOOD TOO: The Builder Responds | Sailfeed
__________________
Cotemar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-05-2014, 15:53   #780
Freelance Delivery Skipper..
 
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: PORTUGAL
Posts: 20,226
Images: 2
pirate Re: Alpha 42 "Be Good Too" rescue 300 miles off Cape Henry Merged

He makes some valid points...
__________________


Born To Be Wild
boatman61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
Aeroyacht Alpha 42, Alpha 42, Gregor Tarjan, offshore, rescue, yacht

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:46.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.