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Old 19-01-2014, 13:40   #481
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re: Alpha 42 "Be Good Too" rescue 300 miles off Cape Henry Merged

So what exactly makes some one a good delivery skipper? I would think if someone is a professional delivery skipper, they'd be able to handle some basic repairs. Not being a diesel mechanic is one thing, but not being able to get a brand new engine running again is another story. I would think a professional delivery skipper would have a bit more engine knowledge and if you could move the starter as suggested, should have knowledge such as this.
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Old 19-01-2014, 13:40   #482
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re: Alpha 42 "Be Good Too" rescue 300 miles off Cape Henry Merged

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Originally Posted by Cotemar View Post
Being a Captain of a boat does not mean you know how to fix it or trouble shoot a problem.
I would change that to:

Being a Captain of a boat means you MUST know how to fix it or trouble shoot a problem.
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Old 19-01-2014, 13:45   #483
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re: Alpha 42 "Be Good Too" rescue 300 miles off Cape Henry Merged

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Originally Posted by minaret View Post

Wonder if you could get a loop of Amsteel around the bent rudder and run it to a winch to bend the shaft back to straight enough to no longer be jammed against the hull?
Good thought. If I remember right the rudder was bent inwards. So you would have to rig something to pull further outboard than straight up the side. So, let's think here for a minute. Your screwed anyway right? Take off the boom and secure it straight up and down right next to the rudder. Then swim down and lash it to the rudder. I think you could do this when it is calm as in the pictures. Then pull the top of the boom inwards to straighten out the rudder.

You know, it probably would be better to think how you can straighten it out before trying to remove it. Anyone else have some ideas how to straighten?
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Old 19-01-2014, 13:55   #484
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re: Alpha 42 "Be Good Too" rescue 300 miles off Cape Henry Merged

I don't see why you wouldn't be able to remove the starter motor from a running engine and swapping it to the not running engine. The starter motor engages the flywheel which is in a 'dry' environment. Just make sure you don't drop anything in the opening after you remove it and and you'll be fine.
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Old 19-01-2014, 13:56   #485
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The man that bought our Sunstar ran the starboard rudder onto some rocks making it inoperable. We disengaged the hydraulic steering to this rudder and ran on one rudder to his destination. He pulled the rudder at the dock in the water, and said it slid right out. No problem with to much flotation or having it sink like a rock. I wonder why they didn't at least try to disconnect the rudder post to see if it would drop.
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Old 19-01-2014, 13:56   #486
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re: Alpha 42 "Be Good Too" rescue 300 miles off Cape Henry Merged

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Originally Posted by rockDAWG View Post
I would change that to:

Being a Captain of a boat means you MUST know how to fix it or trouble shoot a problem.
That would not be true.
Lots of boat Captains just know how to get the boat from A to B.

A Captain in most cases is not a boat mechanic
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Old 19-01-2014, 13:57   #487
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pirate re: Alpha 42 "Be Good Too" rescue 300 miles off Cape Henry Merged

Being a Captain is the easy bit..
Being able to think outside the box and improvise is a skill all on its own.. that's why some abandon and others limp 1500 miles under jury rigs... its all down to motivation.
No disrespect intended but..
Wealthy owners insured to the hilt.. is this piece of crap worth dying for.. pretty sure that crossed their minds..

As for someone editing a sailing magazine... that does not mean he 'Knows' all they print.. and.. is someone else boat worth maybe dying for..

Skippers.. well.. they should be capable of multiple 'fixes' to get by.. but often 'we' recruit folk who can do what we cannot.. but the main factor is 'Majority Rules'.. if the owners on board they are the majority.. absolves the Skipper of responsibility.. if they choose abandoning..
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Old 19-01-2014, 14:13   #488
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re: Alpha 42 "Be Good Too" rescue 300 miles off Cape Henry Merged

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Originally Posted by sigmasailor View Post
I don't see why you wouldn't be able to remove the starter motor from a running engine and swapping it to the not running engine. The starter motor engages the flywheel which is in a 'dry' environment. Just make sure you don't drop anything in the opening after you remove it and and you'll be fine.
Yes, you can remove the the engine starter from a running boat engine.

You just have to be carefull with taping over exposed wires and not touching the spinning flywheel teeth.
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Old 19-01-2014, 14:20   #489
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re: Alpha 42 "Be Good Too" rescue 300 miles off Cape Henry Merged

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Originally Posted by Palarran View Post
Good thought. If I remember right the rudder was bent inwards. So you would have to rig something to pull further outboard than straight up the side. So, let's think here for a minute. Your screwed anyway right? Take off the boom and secure it straight up and down right next to the rudder. Then swim down and lash it to the rudder. I think you could do this when it is calm as in the pictures. Then pull the top of the boom inwards to straighten out the rudder.

You know, it probably would be better to think how you can straighten it out before trying to remove it. Anyone else have some ideas how to straighten?

Don't think you would be able to straighten the shaft while installed. It would be a real long shot, I would not even attempt it after watching my shafts straightened. We placed on a steel table, welded steel blocks all around the perimeter, and then pulled on the shaft with a big ass come along at the proper angle. The forces involved were scary.
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Old 19-01-2014, 14:40   #490
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re: Alpha 42 "Be Good Too" rescue 300 miles off Cape Henry Merged

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Originally Posted by Cotemar View Post
Yes, you can remove the the engine starter from a running boat engine.

You just have to be carefull with taping over exposed wires and not touching the spinning flywheel teeth.
Of course; that's common sense. Before I would try it I would make sure the other engine isn't water locked. Maybe they scooped up some water when falling from the freak wave, flooding the engine. That might be the reason why the second starter motor was burned out.
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Old 19-01-2014, 14:41   #491
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re: Alpha 42 "Be Good Too" rescue 300 miles off Cape Henry Merged

I wasn't going to post these pics as I don't have any pics with the new bottom paint. These are taken at haul out after 3 years in the water.

Not much post to bend. I believe that's how you can get away with smallish diameter post - it's awful hard to bend a 1.5" post when you have <.25" to do it.

btw, the closeup is taken from the opposite side of the rudder.
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Old 19-01-2014, 14:50   #492
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re: Alpha 42 "Be Good Too" rescue 300 miles off Cape Henry Merged

Believe it me, this rudders bend if they are strong enough , if not, probably crushed or with the bottom destroyed in a collision or grounding, and figurate with the boat doing backwards ...
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Old 19-01-2014, 14:55   #493
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re: Alpha 42 "Be Good Too" rescue 300 miles off Cape Henry Merged

Quote:
Originally Posted by colemj View Post
Does anyone know what that small thing is wired up near the rudder posts?

Mark
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyMdRSailor View Post
Probably not the bent shaft sensor...

Kidding aside, it's on both sides... 12-14 Ga??? to with a connector to "itty bitty gauge"??? Courtesy lights for the transom steps?
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Originally Posted by Cotemar View Post
That is an LED light out to the stern steps
Where's my PRIZE???

BTW, as mentioned, you can swap starters from running engines... I've done it.... You don't even (in my case) need to bolt them in place... The starter flange that fits in the mounting hole keeps the pinion to flywheel dimension.... Just don't be a whimpazoid and hold 'er in there ! Pull it off after she fires...
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Old 19-01-2014, 14:56   #494
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re: Alpha 42 "Be Good Too" rescue 300 miles off Cape Henry Merged

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cotemar View Post
That would not be true.
Lots of boat Captains just know how to get the boat from A to B.

A Captain in most cases is not a boat mechanic
Do you think adding the "delivery" adjective in front of "captain" makes it different?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave852 View Post
Don't think you would be able to straighten the shaft while installed. It would be a real long shot, I would not even attempt it after watching my shafts straightened. We placed on a steel table, welded steel blocks all around the perimeter, and then pulled on the shaft with a big ass come along at the proper angle. The forces involved were scary.
Your probably right. Though the use of leverage might make the forces different than your example. It seems to have bent fairly easily to begin with.

Is anyone interested in starting a separate thread to discuss emergency steering on either a cat or mono by using drogues. I know the concept but there must be best practices for this. The only thread I found is this one
emergency steering on a catamaran
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Old 19-01-2014, 14:57   #495
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re: Alpha 42 "Be Good Too" rescue 300 miles off Cape Henry Merged

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Originally Posted by DotDun View Post
I wasn't going to post these pics as I don't have any pics with the new bottom paint. These are taken at haul out after 3 years in the water.

Not much post to bend. I believe that's how you can get away with smallish diameter post - it's awful hard to bend a 1.5" post when you have <.25" to do it.

btw, the closeup is taken from the opposite side of the rudder.
Resistance against permanently bending a 38 mm bar (for 316 SS) is a mere 1135 Nm (sorry don't understand foot.pounds) someone calculated on another forum. That means if the force the rudder puts on the stock is 200 kg (444 pounds) the maximum arm would be in the order of 0,57 meter (22.4 inch) maximum to avoid bending. That would be about half the height of the rudder? Making it all very likely.
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