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Old 17-01-2014, 20:17   #346
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re: Alpha 42 "Be Good Too" rescue 300 miles off Cape Henry Merged

Since this thread seems to be going at 150 posts per day, I want to refer to something said, maybe 200 posts ago. There were several suggestions of going over the side and sawing off the rudder posts. I wonder if anyone suggesting that has ever tried to work under water on a boat in the open ocean, let alone in a calm anchorage? To think you can hold onto a moving boat and put pressure(hacksaw blade?) , and cut SS is probably dreaming. When I was about 25 years younger than anyone on that Cat, I managed to caulk about 60 foot of seam for an old wooden boat getting ready for Antigua Race week. I tried with scuba tanks and could not work with the clumsiness of it, so did it free diving. I snorkeled almost everyday so I was in great shape, but this was so exhausting that I could not even crew the next day. This was in a flat calm anchorage, so in the rolling sea, Good F@#$%^ Luck. Maybe Loyd Bridges, but not the average sailor. Just another opinion. _____Grant.
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Old 17-01-2014, 20:28   #347
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Re: Uncontrolled Jibes

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Originally Posted by beiland View Post
Those uncontrolled jibes could easily be explained if they were surfing down big seas. The rotation direction of the water at the crest of a wave is the opposite of that at the bottom. This tends to force most any vessel that is moving down the backside of the wave to bear off one way or the other.

And depending on your deployment of sail area, the situation can become exacerbated.
That post of mine was because some members had thought that the boat was doing 360s and the gybes before the wave. I was pointing out that I believed it was after the wave, and it was.
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Old 17-01-2014, 20:31   #348
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re: Alpha 42 "Be Good Too" rescue 300 miles off Cape Henry Merged

If we are sawing off rudders, first I would like to know the water temp there. If they were not in the Gulf stream then it would be chilly on your willy.
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Old 17-01-2014, 20:32   #349
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Wave Piercing Bows, ....opinion/presentation

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Originally Posted by yeloya View Post
...We don't know yet whether this contributed or not to the eventi but I am not very much in favor of wave piercing bows that Mr Tarjan is advocating. It's OK if the boat is above 50-55 ft or sailing on lakes but not for surfing down the ocean waves. For those who are interested here is the detailed views of respected cat naval architect on the matter.

Take a Bow: Wave Piercing Bows | Catamaran Concepts

Cheers, Yeloya
Thanks for that link to that summation,...great little presentation.

This excerpt might help explain their inadvertent gybes
Quote:
A less readily apparent factor in bow design is its effect on a boat’s handling and hydrodynamics. A knife-like deep forefoot acts as a sort of bow rudder, sometimes with a mind of its own in a following sea, and as it always directed straight ahead, it impairs a boats ability to turn. ‘Rocker’ in a boats bottom profile indicates a propensity to turn more expediently, straighter keel lines will likely be steadier on course. There are many variables and factors to consider in this regard, especially with sailing vessels, but the bow profile and ‘fineness’ really ought to compliment the overall hydrodynamics and handling. ‘Steering’ bow sections that are immersed intermittently with the waves (see above) may have a very peculiar effect on the boats motion and handling in a seaway. Fashion and cosmetics should be sublimated to the hydrodynamics in a serious cruising vessel.
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Old 17-01-2014, 20:42   #350
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re: Alpha 42 "Be Good Too" rescue 300 miles off Cape Henry Merged

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If we are sawing off rudders, first I would like to know the water temp there. If they were not in the Gulf stream then it would be chilly on your willy.
"Be Good Too" had already went through the Gulf Stream and they said they could feel the warmer water.

That is when Gunther, the 69 year old owner goes for a swim to check on what the rudders looked like.
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Old 17-01-2014, 20:47   #351
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re: Alpha 42 "Be Good Too" rescue 300 miles off Cape Henry Merged

The water temp map is here. Can someone find the coordinates. I'm tired good night.
IMCS Satellite Imagery
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Old 17-01-2014, 20:53   #352
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re: Alpha 42 "Be Good Too" rescue 300 miles off Cape Henry Merged

"Inspecting all the steering gear, we found the port-side rudder stock was no longer connected to its tiller arm. Instead of being secured with a pin all the way through the stock, there was only one small set screw, the tip of which had broken off."

well, that does it for me. that boat is a piece of sh*t. lake sailor only. on a nice day. and that BS artist who runs the company ought to be sued out of his ass.

have a nice day.
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Old 17-01-2014, 20:57   #353
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re: Alpha 42 "Be Good Too" rescue 300 miles off Cape Henry Merged

To drop a rudder in a lagoon 40 take 20 minutes, disconect the end bar, 4 allen screws holding the bar arm to the shaft , and a pin in the top of the rudder bushing and bye bye rudder, easy and practical, no idea how is the setup in the Alpha 42, but as you can see in the picture the shaft run all the way to the bottom of the rudder , bad idea in a collision,the rudder is very close to the saildrive and i suspect the space inside of the steering quadrant and bar linkage is very small.

I dont blame the rudder , any other catamaran can get the same result ,the scary stuff is the bow piercing thing, kinda 2 knifes cutting the waves , surfing down a big roller can be scary like hell!!! rogue wave, freak wave?? i guess the 2 bows plung the wave resting buoyancy and seconds later sending the bows up like a trampoline , killing all the FWD boat momentum, so basically for some designers the actual lvl of comfort
in actual multihulls is not enough, and reducing pitch and discomfort even more bring the idea of the reverse bows, fine in flat water, in rough seas i doubt is a benefit ......





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Old 17-01-2014, 21:04   #354
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re: Alpha 42 "Be Good Too" rescue 300 miles off Cape Henry Merged

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Originally Posted by Cotemar View Post
"Be Good Too" is most likely heading North with the Gulf Stream current.

The Coast Guard Rescue was at Lat +36 51' 36.00" Lon -69 42' 36.00"

She will most likely wash ashore on Martha’s Vineyard or Nantucket in a few weeks to a month.
My guess is at this time of the year the winter frontal systems combined with the Gulf Stream will push her across the Atlantic, if left on her own.
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Old 17-01-2014, 21:06   #355
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re: Alpha 42 "Be Good Too" rescue 300 miles off Cape Henry Merged

And to be honest , the saloon windows is a complete lack of respect for the sea , WTF!!!

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Old 17-01-2014, 21:15   #356
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re: Alpha 42 "Be Good Too" rescue 300 miles off Cape Henry Merged

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And to be honest , the saloon windows is a complete lack of respect for the sea , WTF!!!


Looks like they built it with supports not shown in the rendering.

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Old 17-01-2014, 21:18   #357
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re: Alpha 42 "Be Good Too" rescue 300 miles off Cape Henry Merged

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My guess is at this time of the year the winter frontal systems combined with the Gulf Stream will push her across the Atlantic, if left on her own.
You may be right.

If the owners wanted to attempt a salvage, then they would most likely attempt to do it from Nantucket, before "Be Good Too" is swept east toward France in the gulf stream.
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Old 17-01-2014, 21:18   #358
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re: Alpha 42 "Be Good Too" rescue 300 miles off Cape Henry Merged

Quote:
Originally Posted by neilpride View Post
To drop a rudder in a lagoon 40 take 20 minutes, disconect the end bar, 4 allen screws holding the bar arm to the shaft , and a pin in the top of the rudder bushing and bye bye rudder, easy and practical, no idea how is the setup in the Alpha 42, but as you can see in the picture the shaft run all the way to the bottom of the rudder , bad idea in a collision,the rudder is very close to the saildrive and i suspect the space inside of the steering quadrant and bar linkage is very small.

I dont blame the rudder , any other catamaran can get the same result ,the scary stuff is the bow piercing thing, kinda 2 knifes cutting the waves , surfing down a big roller can be scary like hell!!! rogue wave, freak wave?? i guess the 2 bows plung the wave resting buoyancy and seconds later sending the bows up like a trampoline , killing all the FWD boat momentum, so basically for some designers the actual lvl of comfort
in actual multihulls is not enough, and reducing pitch and discomfort even more bring the idea of the reverse bows, fine in flat water, in rough seas i doubt is a benefit .
.....





Don't know that hull design is an issue. Crew seemed to indicate she was reasonably comfortable and she sat high an well in the above shots from the chopper.

I do agree with you regarding issues with rudders and the glass areas of saloon. Suspect there will be major revisions in these 2 areas by the builder/designer as well as deliveries from NY in winter.
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Old 17-01-2014, 21:22   #359
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re: Alpha 42 "Be Good Too" rescue 300 miles off Cape Henry Merged

With supports or not is a big Plexi....
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Old 17-01-2014, 21:30   #360
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re: Alpha 42 "Be Good Too" rescue 300 miles off Cape Henry Merged

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You may be right.

If the owners wanted to attempt a salvage, then they would most likely attempt to do it from Nantucket, before "Be Good Too" is swept east toward France in the gulf stream.
With him being an FP agent (allegedly the largest cat dealer in the world, see below) maybe he can get FP to row out and fetch it in a few months, fix it for him and send it back on the next current?

from latitude 38, quote: "If I may be allowed a small blurb, my company Aeroyacht, the largest multihull dealership in the world, has recently introduced the Alpha 42 catamaran that I designed."

Latitude 38 Letters - August 2013

there is no end to his BS....
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