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Old 17-01-2014, 09:53   #256
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re: Alpha 42 "Be Good Too" rescue 300 miles off Cape Henry Merged

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Originally Posted by Tootsie View Post
It puzzles me too that the damaged rudders could not be disengaged and either;
-One emergency tiller / rudder used or
-Both rudders being neutralized and steering done with one or two engines.
I was thinking - if they had dive gear aboard (allowing them to spend more time under water) is it likely more could have been done? Could the damaged rudder be removed? Whether properly or with hacksaw?

Just wondering what might be possible - figure its always good to have ideas if one was to ever find themselves in a similar position.
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Old 17-01-2014, 09:55   #257
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re: Alpha 42 "Be Good Too" rescue 300 miles off Cape Henry Merged

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Originally Posted by maytrix View Post
So given the latest writeup, does anyone have any additional thoughts on the boat?

I can understand the rudder failure, but the engine issues, leaky windows, charging issues... seems like a LOT of problems. Would certainly make me think twice if I had one on order.
Easy fixes.... stronger blades... watertight compartments for the "blade holes"....

I wish them the best of luck....
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Old 17-01-2014, 09:58   #258
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re: Alpha 42 "Be Good Too" rescue 300 miles off Cape Henry Merged

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Originally Posted by maytrix View Post
So given the latest writeup, does anyone have any additional thoughts on the boat?

I can understand the rudder failure, but the engine issues, leaky windows, charging issues... seems like a LOT of problems. Would certainly make me think twice if I had one on order.
Dear Maytrix,
Where did you find that this Alpha has all those other problems in addition to the rudder failure?
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Old 17-01-2014, 10:02   #259
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re: Alpha 42 "Be Good Too" rescue 300 miles off Cape Henry Merged

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Originally Posted by Tootsie View Post
I am thinking of what I would do if my crew is not in imminent danger and my cat is just disabled but not taking in much water. Will I then be fined for the rescue operation? It must cost more than the boat!
The Coast Guard is spending huge sums of money everyday. If they aren't performing rescues then they are training for rescues. It is just the way it is. If they weren't rescued then they would still be floating out there and then what?
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Old 17-01-2014, 10:03   #260
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re: Alpha 42 "Be Good Too" rescue 300 miles off Cape Henry Merged

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Originally Posted by Tootsie View Post
Dear Maytrix,
Where did you find that this Alpha has all those other problems in addition to the rudder failure?
It's in Doanes report. I suspect alot of the electrical issues were condensation related. It was really cold.
http://www.sailfeed.com/2014/01/heli...g-be-good-too/
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Old 17-01-2014, 10:06   #261
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re: Alpha 42 "Be Good Too" rescue 300 miles off Cape Henry Merged

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Originally Posted by Tootsie View Post
Dear Maytrix,
Where did you find that this Alpha has all those other problems in addition to the rudder failure?
Read the latest link.

"minor leaks had appeared around the edges of the window frames."

" A fair amount of water squirted in all around the edges of the window panes and one large piece of trim was blown right off one vertical frame."

"On relieving Hank at 0430 hrs early Sunday morning, he informed me we now had no electrical power. He had started the port-side engine shortly after midnight and found it was not charging the batteries. "

"After sunrise we took stock of our situation. We first tried our engines: the port-side engine now would not start; the starboard engine would start, but wasn't charging the batteries; the generator would not start."

"We did discuss raising the mainsail, but decided against it, as we had discovered that the top two full battens had become detached from their batt-cars when we dropped the sail earlier."


All quotes from the following link:

HELICOPTER EVACUATION: Abandoning Be Good Too


I imagine the batten issue could have been caused by the "rogue" wave, but the other issues? One engine down, generator won't start and no charging? Does the boat have no solar too? Sun looks bring in the pic where he's going to check the rudder.
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Old 17-01-2014, 10:10   #262
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re: Alpha 42 "Be Good Too" rescue 300 miles off Cape Henry Merged

No new product is perfect when it leaves the factory. Aren't these the 'normal' shake down problems one can expect on a complex product like a catamaran?
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Old 17-01-2014, 10:11   #263
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re: Alpha 42 "Be Good Too" rescue 300 miles off Cape Henry Merged

If that's the case, then wasn't it a VERY bad decision to do the shake down in these conditions?
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Old 17-01-2014, 10:13   #264
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Re: Alfa 42 "Be Good Too" rescue 300 miles off Cape Henry

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Sorry guys.. 8ft sea's are pussy waves.. big in sheltered coastal waters maybe... but out in the Ocean your talking that much swell with the wave on top... as to the supa dupa wave cutting design.. fine for coastal waters.. but out there I prefer something that goes up and over rather than through.. that's how you get shoved backwards and break things.. imagine diving through a 15ft breaking wave.. sudden stop then Oh Mah Gawd..
But then.. I'm a Luddite...
Believe me you would not have wanted to be out sailing, particularly AROUND Long Island in that weather we were having this year....really cold and nasty.
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Old 17-01-2014, 10:15   #265
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re: Alpha 42 "Be Good Too" rescue 300 miles off Cape Henry Merged

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Originally Posted by maytrix View Post
If that's the case, then wasn't it a VERY bad decision to do the shake down in these conditions?
Yup: they might have broken rule #1 'do not have any plans' (but be patient, prepare yourself and wait for a proper window)

As with all accidents there are several causes.
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Old 17-01-2014, 10:18   #266
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pirate Re: Alfa 42 "Be Good Too" rescue 300 miles off Cape Henry

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Believe me you would not have wanted to be out sailing, particularly AROUND Long Island in that weather we were having this year....really cold and nasty.
Believe me.. the Biscay in December.. 50+ winds and 8metre sea's in a 22ftrs no fun either..
But then I'm nutz..
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Old 17-01-2014, 10:21   #267
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Believe me.. the Biscay in December.. 50+ winds and 8metre sea's in a 22ftrs no fun either..
But then I'm nutz..
Your either nutz, or have really large nutz!
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Old 17-01-2014, 10:23   #268
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Re: Alfa 42 "Be Good Too" rescue 300 miles off Cape Henry

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Spade rudders are susceptible to damages if not centered while the boat is in reverse. The support is in the front of the rudder, not the rear. Hence, the warning by manufacturers to hold the rudder straight when in reverse.

What's curious is how the breach happened that let water in. I would certainly hope the rudder post/tube is strong and 2+' above the waterline. Could the rudder folding/breaking unseat the saildrive? I would think that would take a hell of an impact.
Exactly, spade rudders should not really be utilized on a cruising vessel. They are MUCH more acceptable to damage. Apparently these were bent (the shafts) when the vessel was thrown back by a huge wave.

Now if the rudder shaft gets bent it may likely not operate properly (steer the boat), and it will likely not seal itself in its housing, thus letting water into the vessel. if you take a look at many catamarans you will find that steering gear located in an aft compartment along with the engines and saildrive. So I suspect the water entered the engine areas and rendered them inoperable.
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Old 17-01-2014, 10:25   #269
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re: Alpha 42 "Be Good Too" rescue 300 miles off Cape Henry Merged

By the way, here is the weather map at about the time they damaged the rudders. I have marked their rough position ("300nm off the Virginia coast") with a red X. You can see they just had a pretty strong front cross over them, and would have had some cross seas. And it is genuinely breeze (34 with gusts to 47).

Click image for larger version

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With regards to Charlie's blog . . . the rudder construction quality sound shitty all around.

And the boat did not sound well balanced - before the rudder broke, they needed full port rudder to fore reach, when you should be able to fore reach with a centered rudder with the main a little off centerline. I wonder if the full rudder lock contributed to the later rudder damage.

It does not sound like they thought about unbolting the rudders and dropping them out of the boat (at least the one that was bent). And it does not sound like they tried a drogue to assist the steering. But they did work at it a bit before getting off.

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Originally Posted by beiland View Post
Exactly, spade rudders should not really be utilized on a cruising vessel..
Excuse me . . .but that is simply wrong. A badly built spade is a bad rudder just as a badly built skeg rudder is a bad rudder. But you can also build both well and strongly. We have a spade with a 5" aluminum shaft and 10mm skins and we have hit all sorts of **** with it and its been perfectly fine. And if you don't want to listen to me, Bob Perry says exactly the same, and he is the master at cruising boat. And if you don't want to listen to Bob or me, Steve Dasher will say the same thing . . . and he has many many miles to support it.
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Old 17-01-2014, 10:29   #270
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Re: Alfa 42 "Be Good Too" rescue 300 miles off Cape Henry

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Originally Posted by Dave852 View Post
Perhaps the engine hatches were not secured properly and she scooped a large dose when going backwards. Now why they would let the boat go backwards is a question. In bad weather with plenty on sea room you would think they would be running with the waves on the stern. If the rudders were jammed up into the hull with the rudders enough off center, then they would have a hard time making way in a straight direction even with a drogue. When I jammed both rudders up into the hull (running over a tree) I was able to make my way 200 miles back to panama by constantly adjusting a drogue (using winches). But the rudders were only about 10 degrees off center. Boat would go in a circle no matter what combination of sail and motor I tried without the drogue. It will be interesting to find out what happened exactly, they were aboard long enough after the event to determine that and had some daylight to look under to see what position the rudders were in, assuming they were still there.
Perhaps they didn't 'let her go backwards', but rather were THROWN backwards....that's the report. I'll have more on that later.
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