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Old 16-01-2014, 11:44   #151
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re: Alpha 42 "Be Good Too" rescue 300 miles off Cape Henry Merged

Once again, I believe the problems with gybing and 360s was after the wave. Read the interview and look at the video.

Portsmouth man rescued from sailboat | Local News - WMUR Home
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Old 16-01-2014, 11:52   #152
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No matter what was/is said by the crew.. we won't really know what went wrong unless someone goes out there.. recovers the boat and there's an independent examination..
And I doubt that's gonna happen..
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Old 16-01-2014, 12:36   #153
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re: Alpha 42 "Be Good Too" rescue 300 miles off Cape Henry Merged

"Be Good Too" is most likely heading North with the Gulf Stream current.

The Coast Guard Rescue was at Lat +36 51' 36.00" Lon -69 42' 36.00"

She will most likely wash ashore on Martha’s Vineyard or Nantucket in a few weeks to a month.
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Old 16-01-2014, 13:03   #154
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re: Alpha 42 "Be Good Too" rescue 300 miles off Cape Henry Merged

Yeloya, I gather you are saying that you have sailed a cat with the rudders jambed on a relatively acute angle. If so I will defer to your experience, even though it strikes me that if the angle was acute enough, it would be very difficult, if not impossible to overcome with a drogue. Indeed, even with your experience I am not prepared to accept that all cats would behave in exactly the same way with jambed rudders.

If I am correct - and I know that is a very big if, then as the boat could not be steered in spite of their best efforts at repairing or removing the rudders, then there was no way for them to continue sailing. Furthermore, while we can agree from the photographs that the boat was not awash, nevertheless we also know that they had been manually pumping for a very long time. Eventually exhaustion would set in and the very cold North Atlantic waters would rise. Should they have waited until conditions worsened, or hypothermia set in before seeking help? At this stage, I for one am certainly prepared to give captain and crew the benefit of the doubt.

Please understand, I too am not a fan of 'wave-piercing bows' on a cruising cat. My point was simply that we cannot say that this contributed to the boat being driven back and the rudders damaged. While I am a fan of Ted Cllements and the Antares 44, we must also understand that he has a motive to support his own design, just as he does when he writes on the benefits of a galley-down arrangement and his preferece for keels over boards. What is obvious is that his comments are not ultimate truths and that other naval architects and sailors disagree with him on all of these points.

Regardless, as I read his article, he suggests that fine entries (such as on a battleship) actually allow the bows to penetrate waves with less resistance. The risk in using them on a cruising cat is of pitchpoling, which is not what happened here. Put in simple terms, if one takes a very blunt bow (think of a barge), is it not more likely to be stopped and driven back by a wave than a comparable vessel with a finer entry?

And Boatman, I am not suggesting that you are not entitled to an opinion. My concern is in attacking a boat's design, its construction, or the seamanship of the captain and crew before we know the facts surrounding this incident. I am also not suggesting that you lack experience in heavy conditions in catamarans - although as you make no mention of experiencing the same in a cat with a fine entry, I am still unclear on the basis for your comparison. I too have experience going to windward in cats in heavy weather, although not on one with 'wave piercing bows, so I am unwilling to suggest that this was a factor.

Certainly a Catalac 9m is about as far removed from an Alpha 42 as any cruising cat could be; indeed, I could opine that the problems you experienced were derived more from the relatively small size of the boat, the relative lack of bridgedeck clearance, the fact that the bridgedeck runs so far forward and, the relative lack of strength of a boat that is built without core material above the waterline. But again:
1. I wasn't there (just as you weren't on the Alpha). 2. I haven't sailed a Catalac 9m in any conditions, let alone those (just as you have not sailed an Alpha 42). 3. I am not a naval architect (just as you are not). 4. I have no experience sailing a cat of any size with 'wave piercing bows', just as I suspect that you do not.

I know I am wasting my breath. It is just that I hate to see the reputation of a yacht designer, a yacht builder and a captain and crew maligned before the facts are in.

Brad

PS Sandcrab, having now checked out that report, I agree with your assessment as to when the gybes/360's occurred. Indeed, if the rudders were jambed on an angle, that would make perfect sense.
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Old 16-01-2014, 13:13   #155
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re: Alpha 42 "Be Good Too" rescue 300 miles off Cape Henry Merged

Quote:
The couple from Indiana had just boat the boat and planned to spend their retirement sailing. Right now, the boat is still adrift and will likely sink in the next few weeks.
Although the loss was heartbreaking, Doane said the owners were calm throughout the ordeal.
“They were incredibly philosophical and calm about the whole thing and taking everything in stride,” he said.

I hope they have insurance for their boat and continue to sail in their retirement.



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Old 16-01-2014, 13:16   #156
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re: Alpha 42 "Be Good Too" rescue 300 miles off Cape Henry Merged

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Originally Posted by donradcliffe View Post
One of the articles said that they were having control problems before the big wave--accidental gybes and two full 360's. I'm looking forward to the tell-all article in Sail.

Good boat, good crew, bad decision to sail from New York in January.
It also said they were making headway but that conditions were forecast to get worse.

Agree on the bad decision to leave.
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Old 16-01-2014, 13:16   #157
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re: Alpha 42 "Be Good Too" rescue 300 miles off Cape Henry Merged

As do I Rockdawg, as do I. If they are insured, it will be interesting to see if they purchase another Alpha 42.
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Old 16-01-2014, 13:31   #158
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re: Alpha 42 "Be Good Too" rescue 300 miles off Cape Henry Merged

I would not buy another one, but then, I would not have bought the first one, they are just so unnattractive to me. I am not against multihulls at all but they do seem to be getting uglier to my eyes. Surely somebody could make one that does not look like a biscuit tin plonked on top of a couple of pontoons.

No, I cannot design one. Yes, my opinion does not matter to anybody but me and they are selling like hotcakes, but they do not appeal at all to me.

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Old 16-01-2014, 13:49   #159
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pirate re: Alpha 42 "Be Good Too" rescue 300 miles off Cape Henry Merged

And Boatman, I am not suggesting that you are not entitled to an opinion. My concern is in attacking a boat's design, its construction, or the seamanship of the captain and crew before we know the facts surrounding this incident. I am also not suggesting that you lack experience in heavy conditions in catamarans - although as you make no mention of experiencing the same in a cat with a fine entry, I am still unclear on the basis for your comparison. I too have experience going to windward in cats in heavy weather, although not on one with 'wave piercing bows, so I am unwilling to suggest that this was a factor.

Whoa...
I said it was ugly.. Yes..
I said the bow design was dodgy for Oceans in my eyes.. Yes..
I attacked the construction/design of the boat.. if the above constitutes that.. then Yes..
I attacked the skipper and crews abilities... Most certainly not..
And I'll lay a bet a Catalac will take a lot more punishment than a lot of modern cats.. yours included they're the brickshit house of the seas... even when your shin deep on the floor in the hulls with no pumps..
She made it in..
Can you construe that as an attack..?? Yes..
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Old 16-01-2014, 13:51   #160
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re: Alpha 42 "Be Good Too" rescue 300 miles off Cape Henry Merged

Thanks Southern Star for agreeing with me.

I just want to say that I think it is a damn good lookin' boat and I believe extremely capable. I think this incident was just bad timing and bad luck.

And Boatman, Catalacs are damn ugly. There I said it and I'm not takin' it back.

PS I still love ya Boaty.
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Old 16-01-2014, 13:56   #161
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pirate re: Alpha 42 "Be Good Too" rescue 300 miles off Cape Henry Merged

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Originally Posted by Sand crab View Post
Thanks Southern Star for agreeing with me.

I just want to say that I think it is a damn good lookin' boat and I believe extremely capable. I think this incident was just bad timing and bad luck.

And Boatman, Catalacs are damn ugly. There I said it and I'm not takin' it back.

PS I still love ya Boaty.
Its a brick shithouse.. whadya expect... the Sydney Opera House.
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Old 16-01-2014, 13:58   #162
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re: Alpha 42 "Be Good Too" rescue 300 miles off Cape Henry Merged

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Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
Its a brick shithouse.. whadya expect... the Sydney Opera House.
It's better looking than the "Nun's scrum" Boatie. But then, so are you.

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Old 16-01-2014, 14:04   #163
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re: Alpha 42 "Be Good Too" rescue 300 miles off Cape Henry Merged

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Originally Posted by Southern Star View Post
I too look forward to a 'tell-all' article in Sail. Kind of puts Charles in a tough position, however. Sail magazine will hate to lose the potential advertising revenue if he is highly critical of the boat. On the other hand, if it was bad seamanship (and apparently, repeatedly bad seamanship if they were responsible for mulitple gybes), I suspect he will have a hard time admitting that as well!

Time may not tell all, bit it will certainly tell us more than we know now!

Brad
Brad, totally agree. The multiple gybes bothers me. I too hope Doane will tell us exactly like it is
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Old 16-01-2014, 14:13   #164
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re: Alpha 42 "Be Good Too" rescue 300 miles off Cape Henry Merged

Alpha has already started building #2 and #3 and these should be a quicker build than the first one because the molds are now built. I think I read that they had contracts in place all the way for #8. I am sure Gregor Tarjan will correct design flaws if any. I'm really just thinkin this is a rogue wave or just a really really big one. Followed by another really big one.
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Old 16-01-2014, 14:22   #165
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re: Alpha 42 "Be Good Too" rescue 300 miles off Cape Henry Merged

Thanks Boatman, love you too!!!! I thought that elsewhere on this site you were extolling the virtues of a 'bricksh*t house of the seas' called the Lagoon 380?
Of course, no one should expect you're opinions to be consistent.... Afterall, there is no fun in that!

Cheers!

Brad
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