Abby Sunderland - The Debate

[TaoJones]

Originally Posted by slomotion

The Hal Roth book has Knox-Johnson rounding Agulhas on September 4th. Now you can argue about whether that's the Southern Ocean, but he sailed further south from there and it was definitely winter.

Technically, Abby has never been anywhere in the southern hemisphere in winter.

Sadly, I guess I didn't do a good job of making my main point which was supposed to be that Knox-Johnson and others were far more reckless than Abby.

You're exactly right, slomo. Abby will have been transported back to Reunion by June 21, the day winter officially arrives in the southern hemisphere. If she's still there that day, that will be her first experience of southern winter, although she's already had a heapin' helpin' of late fall in the southern Indian Ocean.

I thought your points about the far-more-reckless nature of the circumnavigations of Know-Johnston and Dumas were elegantly stated and cogent. Thanks for posting that information.

TaoJones

[hummingway]

Originally Posted by xxuxx

It is people like yourself that are responsible for us losing, one by one, our civil liberties that our fore-fathers fought so hard for.

Your "fore-fathers" didn't fight hard for your rights. The rights they fought for were applied to white male land owners. Had the progression of evolving legal process ended with them, in the USA, women and children would still be chattel, and women would not have the vote and people percieved as other non-white would not be considered people at all. It was close to a hundred years after the initial drafting of the constitution that women universally recieved the right to vote and another hundred years before African-Americans and women were percieved as having the same rights as white men.

If Americans are suffering from an erosion of freedom it is more likely a result of a national myopia then any laws protecting children.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by hummingway

In the US slavery as a legal entity ended in 1865 but segregation continued into the 1970's.

Slavery was never completed outlawed in the US - permitted as a punishment.

Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

– 13th Amendment, 1865

But I beleive the US prison system nowadays only uses forced labour (involuntary servitude?)...........those 4 cents an hour really make a difference I guess

[slomotion]

Originally Posted by Noztradamus

Spring is August through November As Australians measure seasons

I'm moving to Australia. Only 6 weeks of winter! June 21-July31.

[billgow]

Originally Posted by defjef

What disturbs me about this effort is not her age, though I think she is probably too you even if she is a great sailor, but the risk involves others getting her out of trouble. This would apply to anyone of any age doing this sort of thing. If you want to live life on the edge and achieve records.. go do it, but don't expect others to come to your rescue.

Now that sounds callous and of course we would come to their rescue, but the deal is that there is a cost to this and it's got to be financial. You take big risks then YOU pay to get rescued. Perhaps these sponsors should be forced to bond this risk.

The commercialization is also rather off putting. Everyone is looking for a buck. Do you hear me sponsors? I'll be sure to see who they are and never buy their products again.

BINGO - Hand the man a cigar!

[David M]

Lets tone down the political side of this discussion.

[hummingway]

Originally Posted by David M

Lets tone down the political side of this discussion.

Will do, sorry

[Noztradamus]

Originally Posted by slomotion

I'm moving to Australia. Only 6 weeks of winter! June 21-July31.

Your real reason should be the short Northern Hemisphere Summer.

Summer only begins there on June 21, and by June 24 it's already MidSummerDay.

[slomotion]

Originally Posted by David M

Lets tone down the political side of this discussion.

OK, try this. I just re-read the Knox-Johnson loose keel saga. It was both funny and horrifying, and in the end you just have shake your head wonder:

Off the Cape Verde Islands Knox-Johnson’s boat is suddenly taking on water at an alarming rate and the pumps can’t keep up. He goes over the side with a rope tied around his waist and discovers a TWO INCH gap in his keel joint. By repeatedly going over on alternate sides of the boat he manages to stuff enough caulking and, well, stuff into the joint to reduce the leak to a trickle. And the pumps get most of the water out.

No distress call for this guy. He’s a solo, nonstop, unassisted circumnavigator, and, by God, he will use determination and resourcefulness to save himself and his boat. And that’s exactly what he did.

So now what? Hey, Dude! You might want to consider heading for port because YOUR BLOODY KEEL’S GONNA FALL OFF.

Nah, it’ll probably be good for another 30,000 miles. And it was. It never stopped leaking; some days it leaked more than others; but it never quite got out of control; and it never broke.

It was the stuff of Knighthoods; and we love it precisely because it was totally crazy. But had he been lost in the Southern Ocean we would have condemned his foolishness.

[David M]

Originally Posted by slomotion

OK, try this. I just re-read the Knox-Johnson loose keel saga. It was both funny and horrifying, and in the end you just have shake your head wonder:

Off the Cape Verde Islands Knox-Johnson’s boat is suddenly taking on water at an alarming rate and the pumps can’t keep up. He goes over the side with a rope tied around his waist and discovers a TWO INCH gap in his keel joint. By repeatedly going over on alternate sides of the boat he manages to stuff enough caulking and, well, stuff into the joint to reduce the leak to a trickle, and the pumps get most of the water out.

No distress call for this guy. He’s a solo, nonstop, unassisted circumnavigator, and, by God, he will use determination and resourcefulness to save himself and his boat. And that’s exactly what he did.

So now what? Hey, Dude! You might want to consider heading for port because YOUR BLOODY KEEL’S GONNA FALL OFF.

Nah, it’ll probably be good for another 30,000 miles. And it was. It never stopped leaking; some days it leaked more than others; but it never got out of control; and it never broke.

It was the stuff of Knighthoods; and we love it precisely because it was totally crazy. But had he been lost in the Southern Ocean we would have condemned his foolishness.

I don't know what that has to do with toning down politics but its a great story.

[Doodles]

Originally Posted by defjef

What disturbs me about this effort is not her age, though I think she is probably too you even if she is a great sailor, but the risk involves others getting her out of trouble. This would apply to anyone of any age doing this sort of thing. If you want to live life on the edge and achieve records.. go do it, but don't expect others to come to your rescue.

Now that sounds callous and of course we would come to their rescue, but the deal is that there is a cost to this and it's got to be financial. You take big risks then YOU pay to get rescued. Perhaps these sponsors should be forced to bond this risk.

The commercialization is also rather off putting. Everyone is looking for a buck. Do you hear me sponsors? I'll be sure to see who they are and never buy their products again.

"Forced" by who or what? Don't we have enough government in our lives already?

[chrome dome]

Originally Posted by slomotion

I'm moving to Australia. Only 6 weeks of winter! June 21-July31.

actually, you're both wrong LOL
winter in Australia offically starts on the 1st June till 31st of August, ( and it's flamin' cold at the moment )
now having delivered that rivetting piece of info, l'll go back to my heater..

please continue...

[D&D]

Originally Posted by Doodles

You've taken what I said out of context a bit.

Fair comment. I stand corrected!

[Jimske]

Originally Posted by billgow

BINGO - Hand the man a cigar!

Ditto. But. . . .hmmmm. . . this got me thinking. I should do a solo RTW in my Searunner 31. Why not? It is stable, doesn't leak, can't sink. What's the worse that could happen? I'll make sure I have a real good survival suit, a good satphone and a couple extra boxes of Cheesits (I do love Cheesits). They got to pick me up if something goes wrong! I may even get a ride in a fancy helicopter.

Maybe I will get to go on Jay Leno or even get invited to one of the reality TV shows!

Ya think the survival suit manufacturers will donate a suit? I can't afford one.

[Get-a-Life]

Originally Posted by TaoJones

Winter becomes spring in the southern hemisphere on September 21, and on December 21, summer arrives in the southern hemisphere. If Know-Johnston entered the Southern Ocean before September 21, it was still winter, officially. If after September 21, it was spring, officially. He then sailed through the Southern Ocean through the spring and early summer, finally rounding Cape Horn on January 17, 1969, before turning back up through the Atlantic, arriving back in England on April 22, 1969. At the time he rounded Cape Horn, it was just a couple of weeks before the exact middle of summer in the southern hemisphere.

TaoJones

I've read some absolute crap on this thread but this must take the prize.

I'm guessing from someone who doesn't even know where either Australia or the Southern Ocean is?

The following is for your information:-
Winter - 1st June to end of August.
Spring - 1st September to end of November
Summer - 1st December to end of February
Autumn (Fall to you yanks) 1st March to end of May

If the above is incorrect, I highly suggest you write to my local politician (Lara Giddings) and tell her that I am very angry about paying for three extra weeks of heating bills.