Abby Sunderland - The Debate

[meyermm]

I already made the point about these rescues ultmately costing you and me more. Already people here in Oz are asking why should she not have to pay for at least some of the $s spent to find her. My problem is that like Jessica Watson these are money making trips with lots of hangers on wanting their piece of gold. If the average cruising boat usually a couple go sailing plan the trip and take all reasonable precautions and are caught out even if it is their mistake most do not mind the cost of rescue. But the idea of taking foolhardy risks with the ultimate aim of fame and fortune and then wanting everyone else to pay when it goes bad is what annoys the masses.

[Doodles]

Originally Posted by meyermm

I already made the point about these rescues ultmately costing you and me more. Already people here in Oz are asking why should she not have to pay for at least some of the $s spent to find her. My problem is that like Jessica Watson these are money making trips with lots of hangers on wanting their piece of gold. If the average cruising boat usually a couple go sailing plan the trip and take all reasonable precautions and are caught out even if it is their mistake most do not mind the cost of rescue. But the idea of taking foolhardy risks with the ultimate aim of fame and fortune and then wanting everyone else to pay when it goes bad is what annoys the masses.

My experience has been any time there is a high profile rescue, be it a Abby S. or a Vendee Globe racer with tons of experience and preparation, there is a big outcry from the taxpayers. They don't complain about the average cruiser rescue because they aren't aware of it not because they don't mind it.

[Minggat]

So much opinion.

Now mine.

I think it's sad that the issues seems so confused here.
Boats get dissmasted.
She didn't lose her mast because she's 16 or because she was alone.

Glad she's OK. Glad she has the guts to try. I get the feeling she is still a determined individual. I'd trade my intimidation in for her determination any day.

But then, I have a "clunky Islander". What do I know?

[Christian Van H]

Originally Posted by Kanani

Was she pushing the envelope too far? I don't know but that's what winners do.....losers stay in port. What I just learned about 10 minutes ago was that the storm that took out her mast had sustained winds of 70Kts with higher gusts.

According to your logic, I am most certainly a loser. I would have stayed in port during Southern Ocean Winter, if that was my only other choice. Are there any other losers like me out there? BTW, who would have thunk it? 70 Knot winds in the Southern Ocean in mid-Winter? Must have taken them by surprise...

[Doodles]

Originally Posted by Christian Van H

Dude, there is a fishing boat currently steaming as fast as possible toward her to save her ass...it is quite possible that she could die without this extraction. What part of this are you not getting?

Do you really need to dramatize this any more than it already has been?

[Christian Van H]

Originally Posted by Doodles

Do you really need to dramatize this any more than it already has been?

You show me a single word of that quote that is not true. Do you feel she is no longer in danger?

[Kanani]

Originally Posted by Christian Van H

Dude, there is a fishing boat currently steaming as fast as possible toward her to save her ass...it is quite possible that she could die without this extraction. What part of this are you not getting?

Oh please........you have no idea how idiotic that sounds. There are rescues at sea from hundreds of cruising yachts yearly. I think you are more fearful than she is and therein lies the problem with these TV and radio pundits.

Abby is not in danger at the moment. There are two dangers in this situation, first was when the mast fell down. She was experienced and savvy enough not to get hurt. There have been many many cases of death and injuries when cruising vessels have lost there masts......some with small children on board.

The most dangerous part of this will be the actually movement of her to another vessel. I just hope that the Master of that vessel is as prudent as Abby is. I will assume that he is. I have seen ships captains pull off some amazing rescues in the middle of horendous storms. I was involved in the "Queens Birtday Storm" between NZ and Tonga in '95. I think about 11 cruising yachts had rescues at sea. Most of those people shouldn't have been there. Some lost their lives. I was in the thick of it and couldn't believe the panic and screaming that heard on the radio from other yachts, in 60kts of wind. First one EPIRB was activated, then in a panic, 11 EPIRBS wre activated within minutes of each other. IMO, most were activated due to fear, inexperience and panic. Most of the yachts that were abandoned were later found....in sailing condition.

[sarafina]

what? a 16 year old sitting in the middle of one of the most remote areas on the globe, in a boat that she has no control over, in an area where the weather is likely to launch huge waves and winds any moment isn't drama all on it's own?

The drama isn't here ace, it's there, with that girl.

[plebian99]

Lets get it right: Not the ideal time to be in the indian Ocean A marginal racing boat that was too large for her A boat with a very marginal limit of positive stability She was fine and let off 2 EPIRBS She could start her engine She could not even cut her rig away, why did she not have hydraulic cutters? As far as I am concerned the clowns(parents) who let her loose should pay the bills for her rescue Any decent cruiser would attempt a jury rig, thats the norm. Everyone wants to throw accolades on when they succeed. Nobody wants to confront the hard truths when there is a failure like this. This is just going to reflect badly on all cruisers and especially yacht racing as a whole. Thank god there is a 1st world nation Australia thats within in striking distance of the southern ocean, if it was not for Australias 1 st committment to their obligation the body count would be very high and yachting as a whole discredited. The essential point she was trying to completer voyage to a schedule regardless of the rish, this was her biggest mistake. I am happy that the wimpy 16 year old did not die, but shame on her and her oganizers as whole.

[Kanani]

Originally Posted by sarafina

what? a 16 year old sitting in the middle of one of the most remote areas on the globe, in a boat that she has no control over, in an area where the weather is likely to launch huge waves and winds any moment isn't drama all on it's own?

The drama isn't here ace, it's there, with that girl.

This world isn't nearly as big as it used to be. Once you've sailed around it a couple of times, your perspective changes. I'll bet that Abby is less concerned han most that hear of this. Fear is a manifestation of the "Unknown". Abby knows exactly where she is and she knows that help is on the way. I would fear for her much more if she was 10 miles off the coast but, somehow, most would feel more comfortable with that.

[Randy]

I'm also in the camp of at least partial reimbursement for the rescue operation. The Sunderland family stands to make out well financially from this venture even without Abby completing the circumnavigation. The purpose of pushing the schedule was for the fame & fortune of youngest solo circumnavigation, it seems to me thather 'lifelong dream' of 3 years would still have been satisfied had the family waited for the southern summer and the advantage of pushing the schedule was solely the age issue.
They rolled the dice and it didn't work out. I wish the whole family well but that doesn't mean other's should foot the bill when a big part of the venture was financial in nature.

[sarafina]

Originally Posted by Kanani

There are rescues at sea from hundreds of cruising yachts yearly.

not however, typically, under the conditions of this one... The reason there wasn't a ship with in 40 hours is because no one with half a brain would be there to begin with...

because I am guessing that typically the usual s&r doesn't involve chartering a commercial airliner to see if her boat is still above water... or a 40 hour power motor to get to the ship in distress...

so you yahoos, now that she seems close to safe can all climb back on your *yee haw, personal initiative, adventure seeking, independent spirit* booster club, but lets not try an pretend that where she is is a good place and it's all cool.
because that's bull.

[Christian Van H]

Originally Posted by Kanani

Abby is not in danger at the moment.

The only reason Abby is not in danger at the moment is that a French fishing vessel is steaming to rescue her. Tell me, expert captain, what exactly could happen to her if the next 70 knot front were to reach her before a rescue ship does? In answering, remember that she is in a mastless, ultra-lightweight racing boat with one hell of a bulb keel. The ONLY reason she isnt in danger is because luck is on her side, the weather Gods are on her side, and a French Angel is on it's way. I believe Abby has a great head on her shoulders, and she'll do OK during the ship to ship transfer, but you and I are never going to agree on why she is there...You win, the Southern Ocean IS the place to be right now.

[Kanani]

Originally Posted by Randy

I'm also in the camp of at least partial reimbursement for the rescue operation. The Sunderland family stands to make out well financially from this venture even without Abby completing the circumnavigation. The purpose of pushing the schedule was for the fame & fortune of youngest solo circumnavigation, it seems to me thather 'lifelong dream' of 3 years would still have been satisfied had the family waited for the southern summer and the advantage of pushing the schedule was solely the age issue.
They rolled the dice and it didn't work out. I wish the whole family well but that doesn't mean other's should foot the bill when a big part of the venture was financial in nature.

I'm not sure where you think all the "Fame & Fortune" comes from. I am personal friends with Brian Caldwell, he held the record for youngest solo for awhile. He's doing what he loves but not much fortune there. Donald Kang is a national hero in Korea........1st Korean solo.....we are very close friends. As sailed with both of these young man across the Indian Ocean and around So Africa. Not a lot of fame and/or fortune.

There may be books written but often times they cost more to publish than they sell.

[Kanani]

Originally Posted by Christian Van H

The only reason Abby is not in danger at the moment is that a French fishing vessel is steaming to rescue her. Tell me, expert captain, what exactly could happen to her if the next 70 knot front were to reach her before a rescue ship does? In answering, remember that she is in a mastless, ultra-lightweight racing boat with one hell of a bulb keel. The ONLY reason she isnt in danger is because luck is on her side, the weather Gods are on her side, and a French Angel is on it's way. I believe Abby has a great head on her shoulders, and she'll do OK during the ship to ship transfer, but you and I are never going to agree on why she is there...You win, the Southern Ocean IS the place to be right now.

Well, seeing that you can't figure it out.......a 70kt storm would make her uncomfortable as the vessel lies ahull. The bulb on the keel will keep the vessel upright. If the keel falls off, the vessel will roll over and comfort will diminish and fear will increase. However, that is a pretty water tight boat and her bunk is quite snug. My bet is, everything in the vessel is well lashed down. Chances of survival would be better than any cruising vessel I have ever been on.

I have performed deliveries from NZ to Aust and visa virsa. Every vessel, without exception, took several days to prepare from the owner's perception of preparedness. My feeling is, a lot of preparation went into every facet of this vessel (from what I've seen). This is not a typical cruising sailboat. This boat was built for the task but like in all radical machines, there is always the possibility of gear failure.