Abby Sunderland - The Debate

[Sabbatical II]

Now that Abby is apparently well and just awaiting rescue we can all be thankful and breathe a bit easier. However, I think if more ill conceived saling trips come to grief so that public resources are used for rescue we can be sure that legislation or charging the beneficiaries will follow, irespective of the age of the sailor. Don't forget the average Joe taxpayer thinks we're all out of our minds anyway and feels that none of us should be allowed to go to sea. I have seen some rather hairy proposals on this forum like one suggesting an ocean crossing in a MacGregor 26. Another reported a yachtie sending out a MAYDAY call for running out of fuel. Clearly then some of us adults are not too clever either. If legislation simply ensured that before all yachties cleared customs, we were all well enough equipped to effect reasonable repairs (including being able to jury rig if dismasted) it may save more draconian measures eventually.

Now, where do we find a sensible government beaurocrat to draw up the equipment list? Not in NSW that's for sure.

Greg

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by Factor

Yes she is [an adult] - and its not an issue of Australia - its an issue of state law in this case Queensland. At 16 she has the right of self determination in Qld. She can do anything she wants (legally) and her parents cannot stop her in any way.

But what would I know - I spent the better part of my life working in the Qld justice system

I know there are several distinct gradations of adulthood & resonsibilitry in Qld, Au. Perhaps you could help us to differentiate between them.

According to the Queensland Law Reform Act 1995, Section 17:
“The age of majority is 18 years. “
➥ http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/q...95123/s17.html

According to Wikepedia:
In Australia, there are several gradations of responsibility before full legal adulthood. Those under age ten are free of all criminal responsibility under the doli incapax doctrine of UK legal tradition. Those under the age of fourteen are presumed incapable of responsibility, but this can be disputed in court. The age of full legal responsibility is 18 except Queensland where it is 17. The age of majority in all states and territories is 18.
The age of majority is 18 for most purposes including sitting on a jury, voting, standing as a candidate, marriage, hiring R-rated films or seeing them in a theater, buying/viewing pornography and purchasing alcohol and tobacco products. The age of consent is 16 in all states and in Queensland consent for anal sex is 18. A person under 18 is defined as a minor or a child.
➥ Minor (law) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Under Australian law the age of majority is eighteen; in many areas of law, however, a person under the age of eighteen may make decisions or be deemed old enough to be legally responsible for their actions.
➥ Children’s Rights: Australia – Law Library of Congress

[MarkJ]

"She's in the boat, the boat's seaworthy, it's not taking on water," Mr Kinley said.

Perth police say Ms Sunderland was packing up her possessions and getting ready to abandon her yacht.
She will be picked up late on Saturday afternoon by a fishing vessel which is on its way.

Abby Sutherland found - americas - world | Stuff.co.nz


Its not leaking. Some might suggest others could fix a jury rig and head down hill to landfall in Austrlalia. Its a long way, but if many were doing the Southern ocean a mast is just one more bit of expendable equipment.


As Daniel the Czech guy dismasted south of Australia did a few weeks ago. Without help or assistance.


I, myself, prefer she come aboard a rescue vessel now.


Mark

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by David M

I see nothing wrong with letting people speak their minds...as long as we are respectful with each other.

Always the same in these events - some folks simply enjoy picking over the corpse.............whilst it is still moving - no matter what is claimed as the motivation.

I really don't see the harm in waiting to hear the outcome before launching attacks / an inquest - a dissapointment that CF.com is happy to condone / encourage

But as "rules are rules" .............anyone know what a 40' Racing Yacht with no rig is worth? and how to claim salvage?..............via the Internet

[DeepFrz]

Adding to Mark's post, Alessandro Di Benedetto has been sailing with his jury rigged mast since around Christmas, even rounding the Horn after losing his mast and re-rigging at sea. He has recently crossed the equator in the Atlantic on his way home.

[psteele235]

"anyone know what a 40' Racing Yacht with no rig is worth? and how to claim salvage?..............via the Internet "

Thanks for that chuckle, DOJ! Find a way and I will put money up for a business!

[bilgedawg]

Thank God she is ok and will be rescued.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by DeepFrz

Adding to Mark's post, Alessandro Di Benedetto has been sailing with his jury rigged mast since around Christmas, even rounding the Horn after losing his mast and re-rigging at sea. He has recently crossed the equator in the Atlantic on his way home.

http://www.alessandrodibenedetto.net/

[Bill Lee]

Some people get life insurance for their kids. I just don't understand that - if my kids die - I don't want money - I want my kids! I understand health insurance etc...that's not what I'm talking about. I don't want to protect my kids so much that they NEVER get hurt - they need that experience. Its all a matter of degree of risk. I accept that Abby may be exceptionally mature, competent and skilled. The degree of risk for her may be significantly lower than for 99% of other sailers. I also accept that the experience may be extremely beneficial to Abby (letting her be self-reliant and esteem building). But there are other ways of Abby benefiting from less risky experiences too. At my age, I don't care about 'age of majority' - most 21 year olds are still kids to me. I want my kids to pursue their passions - take rock climbing. You can die out there. As a kid, there's no way I'd let them climb K2 or Mount Everest - that doesn't mean I won't let them climb at all. Abby is doing the equivalent of Mount Everest. I don't understand her parents letting her do so. Cheers,
Bill

[Christian Van H]

Originally Posted by bilgedawg

Thank God she is ok and will be rescued.

I doubt there is anyone on this forum who doesn't feel the same way. I feel it's pointless now to argue about whether she should have started or not, but I am saddened to know that in the end her parents will not bear the responsibility for her rescue. Diverting three ships and flying a large jet out to Abby would have cost my live's fortune, and, should I have bought MY kid a 40' race boat and my "team" sent her out into the Southern Ocean in June, I would feel responsible for this cost and the risking of rescuers lives. Enough of these "stunts", and our governments will find ways of stopping us cruisers from doing what we love best...cruising. Feel like paying for a million dollar bond before being allowed offshore?

[Jetexas]

What's odd is that Abby's older brother succesfully made the trip round the world at age 17 as well, yet we never heard anything about it. Could it be because he's a guy?

Let's turn a blind eye to age for a moment. I can't even count the posts of middle-aged CF members with zero sailing experience who say, "I've decided I want to circumnavigate when I retire in three years, what kind of boat should I buy?"

Abby's been sailing with her family constantly since infancy. If she's 17 years old, you could say she has at least 10 years of extremely solid sailing experience. I'd rather be on a boat with her than most of the posters in this forum.

I'm sure her parents thought long and hard about this, were confident in Abby's abilities, and made the decision to support their child's dreams.

[bilgedawg]

Very tough call for her parents I would think given that they let their son Zac do basically the same trip although he was wise enough to stop along the way and enjoy the trip. I would think it would be more difficult for the parents to say "no" to Abbey because she was female.

[Christian Van H]

Originally Posted by Jetexas

I'm sure her parents thought long and hard about this, were confident in Abby's abilities, and made the decision to support their child's dreams.

How, exactly, can you be confident in you child's ability to handle the Southern Ocean in June? I would love ANYONE on this forum to answer this question.

[bilgedawg]

Originally Posted by Christian Van H

How, exactly, can you be confident in you child's ability to handle the Southern Ocean in June? I would love ANYONE on this forum to answer this question.

Our children? I would like to know how many forum members would do the Southern Ocean in June! Not me!!! There is a reason there wasn't a ship within 400 miles of Wild Eyes when she got in trouble.

[Christian Van H]

Originally Posted by bilgedawg

Our children? I would like to know how many forum members would do the Southern Ocean in June! Not me!!! There is a reason there wasn't a ship within 400 miles of Wild Eyes when she got in trouble.

LOL You'll never catch me there!