Abby Sunderland - The Debate

[JiffyLube]

Originally Posted by Christian Van H

That was the first Fox I've watched in years!

So, now we know they used Commander's weather service. Wouldn't you like to get your hands on the transcripts from those briefings?

Also posted was the fact that the Sunderlands have dropped their fund raising attempt to retrieve Abby's boat. Apparently they have come to realize that everyone else in the world respects the sea MUCH more than they, and cant find anyone stupid enough to cajole into putting their on asses on the line to go retrieve their broken toy.

Good news though for all of the Sunderlands supporters! You will soon be able to tune in the Sunderlands to get your fill! They are negotiating the rights to their own reality show. All they need now is to live in reality...

BTW, am I the only one here who keeps getting "Bigger Bras.com" ads while I'm surfing the forum? Can the adware be so smart that it actually knows what I'm thinking about?

The Sunderlands are not going to do a reality show. They were approached to do one, but have decided to turn it down.

[TaoJones]

Originally Posted by JiffyLube

The Sunderlands are not going to do a reality show. They were approached to do one, but have decided to turn it down.

Now quite right, JL . . . they were approached to do such a show, agreed to do it, it was shopped but never optioned and so it never occurred. That is the version Mrs. Sunderland has posted to Abby's blog, anyway:

Abby's Blog

Lots of other interesting information in the post, as well: see "Answers to the Critics."

[GordMay]

Excerted from the blog (emphasis mine)

"... TOO FAR SOUTH AND TOO LATE IN THE YEAR

We have removed the previous comments here from Abby's meteorologist/router as the comments in it were from a personal email between us and not meant for public viewing. We apologize for the major inconvenience this has caused. Abby's parents take FULL responsibility for Abby's sailing strategy and in no way blame, nor should anyone else, the team that was behind her ..."

Interesting, and revealing.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by JiffyLube

The Sunderlands are not going to do a reality show. They were approached to do one, but have decided to turn it down.

Well ... and how do you call the thing they have produced and are taking part in? You do not call it sailing, do you?

b.

[Seahunter]

From 2010-06-14 Latitude 38:
"We're personally delighted that Abby will be coming home safe. As we wrote in the last issue of Latitude, that's all we wanted to happen. While we've never been a big fan of Abby's or what we believe were her misguided aspirations, we feel she's too young to be held responsible for the fiasco. In our view, parents Laurence and Marianne are the ones who deserve contempt, if not jail time. But if Abby decides to join Zac on some motorcycle trip to fame and fortune, and abandons all future sailing plans, nothing could make us happier. The next time we have to write about Sunderlands and sailing in the same sentence, it will be far too soon for our taste."
nuff said.

[xxuxx]

Originally Posted by Seahunter

From 2010-06-14 Latitude 38:
"We're personally delighted that Abby will be coming home safe. As we wrote in the last issue of Latitude, that's all we wanted to happen. While we've never been a big fan of Abby's or what we believe were her misguided aspirations, we feel she's too young to be held responsible for the fiasco. In our view, parents Laurence and Marianne are the ones who deserve contempt, if not jail time. But if Abby decides to join Zac on some motorcycle trip to fame and fortune, and abandons all future sailing plans, nothing could make us happier. The next time we have to write about Sunderlands and sailing in the same sentence, it will be far too soon for our taste."nuff said.

Oh yeah, that's real smart. Like a motorcycle is not dangerous. People like this are mis-informed. Who are you to judge she is too young? and why do the parents deserve contempt? They are a professional sailing family and last time I looked...this is America Jack and people are allowed to follow their dreams. Secondly, no one cares of you are happy or not. Mind your own beeswax!!!

[Southern Star]

xxuxx, I have always thought that proponents of individual freedom acknowledge that one is only free to do what does no harm to others - and that where it does, the government is entitled to set restrictions. There are huge costs to various governments for offshore rescues and so, yes, IMO governments are entitled to set some standards and taxpayers are entitled to express opinions concerning preparedness for this type of voyage.

I would suggest that only if one chooses to sail without an EPIRB, or agrees not to use a SSB/VHF to send maydays, does your argument about individual freedom/choice carry any weight. Even then, were the person at risk under a certain age (in many countries, 18) the government is also entitled to provide protection to a child 'in need of protection'. As I recall the government of Holland did precisely that in the case of an even younger girl who had the support of her parents in undertaking a similar voyage. In essence, the government is able to step in, when appropriate, to protect children from their parents.

Finally, the question as to 'how young is too young' is one that is constantly dealt with by governments concerning inherently less dangerous activities such as driving a motor vehicle, purchasing alcohol etc. and again, surely others are entitled to weigh-in with opinions concerning anything that either is, or may become law.

Brad

[xxuxx]

Originally Posted by Southern Star

xxuxx, I have always thought that proponents of individual freedom acknowledge that one is only free to do what does no harm to others - and that where it does, the government is entitled to set restrictions. There are huge costs to various governments for offshore rescues and so, yes, IMO governments are entitled to set some standards and taxpayers are entitled to express opinions concerning preparedness for this type of voyage.

I would suggest that only if one chooses to sail without an EPIRB, or agrees not to use a SSB/VHF to send maydays, does your argument about individual freedom/choice carry any weight. Even then, were the person at risk under a certain age (in many countries, 18) the government is also entitled to provide protection to a child 'in need of protection'. As I recall the government of Holland did precisely that in the case of an even younger girl who had the support of her parents in undertaking a similar voyage. In essence, the government is able to step in, when appropriate, to protect children from their parents.

Finally, the question as to 'how young is too young' is one that is constantly dealt with by governments concerning inherently less dangerous activities such as driving a motor vehicle, purchasing alcohol etc. and again, surely others are entitled to weigh-in with opinions concerning anything that either is, or may become law.

Brad

Well thought out and written, however,these government entities are already in place. Part of their mandate is rescues. One can choose to partake of their services or not. It's like schools in your city or county. If you have kids, you use them, if no kids, no use. I think some people are just plain jealous and/or they trying to squeeze blood from a stone. Why not direct your efforts in real government waste....pick one. Also FYI: she was picked up by a French fishing boat...not government owned.

[Adax]

To my mind there is only one issue here - preparedness . If you allow that a 16 yr old is capable of sailing singlehanded around the world then her actions are up to scrutiny as if she was a 30 yr old doing teh same thing. All the rest is attaching one´s flag to the mast after the ship has sailed. It is not about American freedom, how homeschooling produces balanced kids etc .

The real questions :

Was this a feasible venture for a 16 yr old with her experience in the austral winter in the South Atlantic ?

Was the planning based on sound judgement ? ( no backstay on the boat ,no windvane as back up ,all equipment electronic etc)

How was she prepared to deal with failure of all her equipment ?
( Read her website for info where and how she has sailed .)

Is it fair to ask other people to risk their lives to rescue you ?
(the French captain is reported to have almost gone overboard in the rescue attempt )

Now before you say anything ,of course she should have been rescued. Anyone should be regardless of circumstances. But should we hero worship the attempt because of her age ,her sex, her education,her nationality or should it be judged on the merits of the exploit?
I vote for the latter .

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by xxuxx

Oh yeah, that's real smart. Like a motorcycle is not dangerous. People like this are mis-informed. Who are you to judge she is too young? and why do the parents deserve contempt? They are a professional sailing family and last time I looked...this is America Jack and people are allowed to follow their dreams. Secondly, no one cares of you are happy or not. Mind your own beeswax!!!

Last time I looked, Balloon Girl had left America. Jack


What's it matter to anyone else? A fair question..........maybe folks doing dumb stuff in my pastime whilst actively courting publicity could impact on me from anti-idiot laws so beloved of all Governments? 1 idiot maybe not, a million idiots? probably.........IMO idiot Miley Cyrus wannabees (of all sexes, ages and nationalities) far more likely to copy a stunt in the name of C list fame if the previous attempt was perceived by them (and Sponsors) as reasonable / safe / sexy / cool.

So far in this part of the world we still maintain our freedom to set sail RTW in a bathtub quite legally. Nor are we subject to inspection by seaborne Paramilitaries checking to see we have a plan onboard - telling us how to take a dump

Freedom, sometimes you just can't buy it ........but sometimes it involves calling an idiot an idiot. or hitting one with a spade (Virtually. or not ).

[Seahunter]

xxuxx don't get your panties so tied up; you're squeezing too hard and it'll cut off your circulation and you'll bleed from your ears.
I might suggest you take a CG course and brush up on your maritime law regarding who pays for what. Insulting the messengers won't make the truths go away and only shows how narrow minded people can be. History has proven that setting your kids loose on the water alone is not that great of an idea; unless your name is Moses.
Sincerely, "Jack"

[Christian Van H]

Originally Posted by TaoJones

Now quite right, JL . . . they were approached to do such a show, agreed to do it, it was shopped but never optioned and so it never occurred. That is the version Mrs. Sunderland has posted to Abby's blog, anyway:

One thing I'm sure of; as the facts leak out about this attempt, supporters will get quieter, and quieter, and quieter, and...

Elsewhere in the news, another project overseen by the Lord had a run in with nature:

YouTube - 'Touchdown Jesus' Struck by Lightning

Makes you think about the fuzzy lightning protector atop your mast!

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by xxuxx

Oh yeah, that's real smart. Like a motorcycle is not dangerous. People like this are mis-informed. Who are you to judge she is too young? and why do the parents deserve contempt? They are a professional sailing family and last time I looked...this is America Jack and people are allowed to follow their dreams. Secondly, no one cares of you are happy or not. Mind your own beeswax!!!

As stated above this is America where you can more or less do as you please and where you have the rights to your own opinions and the rights to tell other people about them, including thoughtful opinions about stupid people and stupid opinions about thoughtful people.

This is a forum for sharing knowledge and opinions. Telling people not to is kind of against the grain for this venue.

[GordMay]

Well said, Adelie.

[MarcW]

My comment on the Abby discussion.

I when looking for the pilot guides of the Indian Ocean it took 1 minute. Looking at the chart you would be either very experineced or mad to sail in that ocean at this time.

Check out Boating & Yachting Resources - Marine Navigation, Marine Radio, Cruising, Passagemaking, Safety, & Marine Weather for charts.

Presently in Perth Australia but x Tasmanian I would not sail on the west coast of Tasmania at this time of the year.

Abby has done a great job to get so far but question why at this time.