Abby Sunderland - The Debate

[sabray]

Originally Posted by Mariness

. But I also don't mind requirements to have EPIRB/life raft/whatever your favorite safety device is. We require safety equipment in cars, it might be a good idea if it's made mandatory for boats too.

Please NO!!!!!! I chose to put these on my boat but it was my choice. I sailed alot without them when I was younger that was My choice sort of although I couldn't have afforded them then don't infringe on choices we can make as adults.

[sneuman]

Report: Abby Sunderland's Dad Inked Reality Deal - CBS News

I guess the difference between Abby's voyage and the balloon boy is that she was actually aboard the boat.

[slomotion]

I would like to think that Abby has not yet been corrupted by the shameless exploitation practiced by her parents. However, one of the best arguments against this voyage is that she soon will be.

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by HHNTR111

I guess what bothers me is the notion of "setting a record" by being the youngest to go around. Ok with me to go if you want, but in trying to be the youngest, setting a record, we have a progression of younger and younger people sailing around the world alone...and we will know that the child doing the trip is too young when they die.

Seems kind of unnecessary...

Thank god someone else on this forum understands.

Jessica Dubroff, a 7-year-old student pilot from Pescadero, Calif., taking off on the second leg of an audacious quest to become the youngest person ever to complete a round-trip flight across the USA, was killed in 1996 when her single-engine plane crashed shortly after takeoff from Cheyenne Airport. 2 others were also killed.
Father, Lloyd Dubroff said he was inspired by another young girl's cross-country flight several years ago, and when Jessica expressed an interest in flying, he asked her if she would like to try such a flight.

Her plane took off late into bad weather to keep up with Media commitments.

The person who so inspired the father was the previous record holder who was 11 years old. She committed suicide at 26 years old by shotgun.

Vicki at 11 years old. Suicide at 26

[HHNTR111]

So, let's see how these dots connect. Abby takes a voyage around the world, to try to set the record for being the youngest to do so. She sets off at a bad time of year, because someone else is trying to set the same record. She looses her mast in completely predictable conditions, from being in the wrong place at the wrong time, and now her father signs a reality TV deal?

[slomotion]

And the truly scary thing is that all by themselves the Sunderlands have created a small army of ever younger solo circumnavigation candidates.

[slomotion]

Originally Posted by HHNTR111

She looses her mast in completely predictable conditions, from being in the wrong place at the wrong time, and now her father signs a reality TV deal?

Now, now, let's be fair. Dad needs the money so he can finance solo circumnavigations for her siblings.

[Mariness]

Personally, I don't care about the money. Everyone does something to make money. No one claims my Saturday was in some way lacking honor (or whatever) because I spent it at the office, earning. Abby is 16 - about that age where people begin to develop an idea of what they want to do with their lives, how they want to earn a living and support themselves. If she wants to support herself by "sailing for the cameras", why does it matter to anyone else? You aren't writing her paycheck. Either she can sail or she can't; whether someone pays her to do it isn't going to make much difference once the wind & waves kick up.
And although I often question the motivations of "Corporate America", I don't doubt their business sense. They would NEVER back someone they didn't feel was up to the task just for the publicity - they would not want their name associated with causing the first teenager to die at sea. That would be terrible for business!

[seandepagnier]

I think she should be able to sail the boat as much as she wants.

Maybe next time she should travel as I do (without epirbs) so that rescue is impossible. This way she would avoid public "hype" and also know to trust her vessel (did she sink?) I have a kite, as well as solar-electric propulsion.

[S&S]

Originally Posted by slomotion

OK, try this. I just re-read the Knox-Johnson loose keel saga. It was both funny and horrifying, and in the end you just have shake your head wonder:

Off the Cape Verde Islands Knox-Johnson’s boat is suddenly taking on water at an alarming rate and the pumps can’t keep up. He goes over the side with a rope tied around his waist and discovers a TWO INCH gap in his keel joint. By repeatedly going over on alternate sides of the boat he manages to stuff enough caulking and, well, stuff into the joint to reduce the leak to a trickle. And the pumps get most of the water out.

No distress call for this guy. He’s a solo, nonstop, unassisted circumnavigator, and, by God, he will use determination and resourcefulness to save himself and his boat. And that’s exactly what he did.

So now what? Hey, Dude! You might want to consider heading for port because YOUR BLOODY KEEL’S GONNA FALL OFF.

Nah, it’ll probably be good for another 30,000 miles. And it was. It never stopped leaking; some days it leaked more than others; but it never quite got out of control; and it never broke.

It was the stuff of Knighthoods; and we love it precisely because it was totally crazy. But had he been lost in the Southern Ocean we would have condemned his foolishness.

It wasn't that the keel was going to fall off but that the mast step didn't spread the load far enough and made the keel (as defined for a wood boat- not the ballast keel) flex and open the garboard seam when the boat was driven hard. If his keel bolts were loose you bet he would have pulled in.

As I recall, it never got to the point that the pumps wouldn't keep up but the amount of water coming in was "worrysome" (you gotta love the British way with understatement)

Knox- Johnson was way more experienced that Ms. Sunderland and Suahili was a better boat than Wild Eyes for those waters (flexi-keel and all)

[slomotion]

I don’t really have a problem with the commercialization in general. It’s just the 21st Century version of something which started with Joshua Slocum. So sure, go ahead and get sponsors, endorse their products, sell memorabilia, write a book, etc. But the Sunderlands (parents - not Abby) are so over the top that they wind up looking totally mercenary and sleazy. They shamelessly promoted this voyage and its alleged October 2009 start date for months before Abby even had a boat - which of course she didn’t even get until late October. Then there’s the wacko and now debunked Save Wild Eyes fund raiser, the reality show, the preposterous God-is-on-our-side interviews, etc.

[xxuxx]

Originally Posted by Mariness

Well, as a parent, I have to say there is a pretty significant "consequence" to something like letting them sail alone -- potential loss of your child! I don't know if I would allow my 16-year-old to do something like this, and hopefully won't have to make that decision down the line.
That said, my parents enabled me to do something that some might say was risky, by supporting it financially: They 'allowed' me to move across the country and go to college at a school I couldn't afford, in a city (and state) where I didn't know a soul, in a neighborhood that only 2 years earlier had been broken by race riots. In fact they didn't only "enable," they quite actively encouraged (my bedroom became a den before I even finished packing)!
So, I think you're onto it saying that the disagreement is WHERE the line should be drawn, rather than if.
As for the liability, I can live with a few of my pennies supporting rescue efforts (not in this case, just in general). But I also don't mind requirements to have EPIRB/life raft/whatever your favorite safety device is. We require safety equipment in cars, it might be a good idea if it's made mandatory for boats too.

Oh NO....here we go again......yeah let's write another law. Under the guise of Responsible boating and public safety. NOT!!! When are people going to wake up....look at the mess we are in....way too many taxes and IMHO way to many laws. Isn't that why many of us cruise?....to escape many of the taxes and laws that we have on land?

[Bill Lee]

Originally Posted by Mariness

Personally, I don't care about the money. Everyone does something to make money. No one claims my Saturday was in some way lacking honor (or whatever) because I spent it at the office, earning. Abby is 16 - about that age where people begin to develop an idea of what they want to do with their lives, how they want to earn a living and support themselves. If she wants to support herself by "sailing for the cameras", why does it matter to anyone else? !

Did I miss something? According to the story its Abby's DAD who's going broke - not Abby. So Abby gets the risk and DAD gets the money (or alot of it). This point is irrelevent to the debate - just makes her dad (parents) more dispicable - yes - a strong word. Its one thing to support your child's REASONABLE dream, its another to try and make money by risking your child's life. OK, why is this irrelevent? Its irrelevent because the issue isn't the rationale behind sending Abby (she was sent) it is whether she should have done this voyage and whether there is a grey area where we can all agree that the event was too dangerous given the age of the child and with the time constraints that have been imposed. Again, these record breaking attempts have nothing to do with an experience and everything to do with increasing your risk to beat the age/time record previously set. While some of the posters minimize the risk of the trip (and they may be right given the right equipment and experience) it is still risky. The insult to the injury here is the profit. Sorta like sending your kid to war and making a million dollar bet as to whether they'll survive or not (see - I was able to bring in the military analogy). Cheers,
Bill

[slomotion]

Originally Posted by S&S

As I recall, it never got to the point that the pumps wouldn't keep up but the amount of water coming in was "worrysome" (you gotta love the British way with understatement)

Exactly!

I describe this as being "delightfully crazy." You may want to phrase it differently, but it is part of why we revere Sir Robin.

[xxuxx]

OMG.....it just came to me!! Let's clone a whole bunch of little Nigel Calders and keep them in reserve for anyone under the age of 21 who dares do attempt some around the world adventure. In fact, We could make a law....let's call it the "Little Nigel Calder Law" for under 21 yr olds. Of course there would be an aministrative fee to get your little Nigel Calder and of course there would be stiff fines if you didn't have your little Nigel Calder with you, not to mention the annual registration fee with perhaps a little use tax for good measure. Write your congressman today!!