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Old 12-06-2010, 17:48   #226
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I must admit I assumed that one was a scam until I saw that it is linked to by her main site. It's certainly not unknown for scam artists to put this kind of site up. I wonder why they have done it as a separate site like that? It doesn't even link back to the main site.

Anyhow the idea of saving it is hopelessly naive I think, just like the idea that was being floated that the fishing boat could have given her a tow. No-one is going to do such a thing in those kind of seas, it's the wrong place and wrong time of year for such tomfoolery, I mean what would happen when the next storm broke a couple of days into the tow? I think the boat will now sink of its own accord long before they get a salvage boat out there, and even if it doesn't the chances of locating it once the EPIRB stops transmitting are remote. I sincerely hope they are going to reimburse all those donations when the plan comes to nothing.
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Old 12-06-2010, 17:48   #227
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So, David, does this mean that we can't count on you for the Save Wild Eyes campaign?:

Help Save Abby Sunderland's Boat Wild Eyes | Abigail Sunderland

Pretty amazing. How long does it take to get a website up and running?
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Old 12-06-2010, 17:50   #228
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So, David, does this mean that we can't count on you for the Save Wild Eyes campaign?:

Help Save Abby Sunderland's Boat Wild Eyes | Abigail Sunderland

Those Nigerians sure are quick off the mark
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Old 12-06-2010, 17:51   #229
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As for compensating the rescue vessel owners:

Once Ms. Sunderland was safely onboard the rescue ship, is there any maritime law that would prevent the French fishing vessel from claiming salvage rights on the damaged sailboat? I realize it would be a difficult tow to accomplish, but if the alternative was to scuttle the sailboat for safety reasons, it would seem that towing the sailboat for salvage rights would be the lesser of two evils.
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Old 12-06-2010, 17:53   #230
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Now that the turbulent air has mostly leaked out of this thread, I can only say that whatever way you judge Abby and her parents, just remember it was their “choice” and choice is what WE… as the fortunate’s of this world,…. protect so dearly.

I am glad she survived, I am sorry she did not cross the finish line, but do I really care….

To be honest …No!

It is for those youth, who have no choice, who have no parents or a caring society that will see them…. they way we all see Abby, …. it is for them....that I reserve my anguish and associated guilt for.

Kind of puts things in perspective… don’t you think?
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Old 12-06-2010, 18:03   #231
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It would be hard for me to put things in perspective if I was staring down the barrel of an AK-47 aimed by an 11 yr old soldier .... and if I didn't have an extra Happy Meal in my backpack to bargain with .... then what?
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Old 12-06-2010, 18:06   #232
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As for compensating the rescue vessel owners:

Once Ms. Sunderland was safely onboard the rescue ship, is there any maritime law that would prevent the French fishing vessel from claiming salvage rights on the damaged sailboat? I realize it would be a difficult tow to accomplish, but if the alternative was to scuttle the sailboat for safety reasons, it would seem that towing the sailboat for salvage rights would be the lesser of two evils.
It's my understanding the rescuing ship has rights to the abandoned boat and in addition, is legally allowed to demand compensation for their efforts.
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Old 12-06-2010, 18:06   #233
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It would be hard for me to put things in perspective if I was staring down the barrel of an AK-47 aimed by an 11 yr old soldier.
Exactly......but it would get your attention...
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Old 12-06-2010, 18:08   #234
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Does anyone know what it costs to charter an Airbus A330 for a 4000 mile daytrip? I would guess that that and the other plane are probably the biggest real costs (as opposed to already paid for costs, like S&R staff) of the rescue. I wonder if any scheduled flight had to be cancelled to get hold of the plane?
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Old 12-06-2010, 18:18   #235
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It's great and wonderful news that Abby is safe. However; the way the media and family makes it sound was that it was like an end of the world scenario. As many of us know the conditions described are actually very near the baseline anywhere on the open seas. Even off the benign coast of California, winter storms can post 75Kn winds and 45 foot breaking waves. Remembering almost any boat can survive any height of wave as long as it's not breaking one has to wonder what really went wrong.
A knock down is a terrible thing to experience for the first time; it does feel like the end of the world as everything not bolted down on your boat becomes an out of control missile. However, this is not an unknown condition to sailors and one must be prepared in advance for catastrophic failure, including a mast take down. The father fails in wanting to disclose the conditions leading up to the demasting and consequential loss of communications indicates that the boat wasn't completely prepared. Where was the "ditch bag"? As we know this is an essential piece of equipment that carries (DRY) spare batteries, food, water, navigation AND communication equipment. A spare and fully charged iridium (uses same satellites as EPERP) phone would have reestablished communications almost right away. There and many unanswered issues regarding the preparedness of this boat and I think the parents should come clean on the events leading up to and after the loss of the mast.
I actually saw this boat at Windward Boat Yard in Marina Del Rey 2 weeks before it left. They had modified the keel beyond the original specs, adding substantial weight to the bulb and length to the fin that would increased the inertial mass to the mast as weather increased.
As an experienced cruiser I would have never left the dock to go to Catalina in this boat more less do the great circle. It was an insufficient boat with insufficient crew with insufficient support with insufficient experience. No wind vane, just auto pilot...no wonder they left it adrift.
These issues aren't about curbing the human spirit of exploring our limits, regardless of our age, because this is the Human factor, but if we're going to face these perilous conditions we must be prepared so as we don't have to put others at risk to save us for our short comings.
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Old 12-06-2010, 18:26   #236
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Never sailed the Southern Ocean, but I've never set fire to my testicles either, but based on my own experiences I know sufficient about fire not to cover my genitals with gasoline - whilst smoking. (And I knew all that even before the time I set fire to my head. For a bet ).

So, having established my (armchair ) credentials...........


IMO Abby perfectly entitled to be out there in a 40' boat. or on a lilo in a bikini covered in custard. Mmmmmmm. Custard And on a personal note whilst I wish her no harm, would not care much whether she had drowned or succeeded. Either way I would (and will) forget all about her 5 minutes after the event is finished. Same for the Aussie Miley Cyrus Unless either of them (or both ) take Hugh Heffners shilling And from a business perspective I wish them both well in milking the events for all they are worth Just don't expect me to contribute any cash.

In any event I hope that both have learnt at least 1 important lesson from their adventures - that cash (and a bit of C list "fame" ) isn't worth dying for. A lesson they may wish to pass onto.............their parents.

For the parents on the other hand (and those who financed her) I think reasonable for them to face at least investigation from their home authorities for reckless child endangerment.........whether further action (jail time ) is merited would depend on the results of the investigation...........it may well be that her adventure was not so reckless, but my gut says that although not the same as strapping a 3yo child to a home made rocket - it ain't sending her to Disneyland either.........and she ain't doing any of this on her own so someone is sending her. and is therefore responsible / culpable........with choices come consequences. For parents as well as child.

And FWIW I don't see that anything went unexpectedly wrong.......you take a high powered racing vehicle (sea or land) onto a course and it is no surprise that things break. That's simply the price of being in a high powered racing vehicle - even if you are not running it at full power. I make no criticism of anyone making that choice. Just got to expect a higher chance of failure.

..........that's why Jessica (and most others not in a race) choose something more staid. and pay the price in speed. and gain by far less (but not zero) likelihood of needing to be rescued.

Be interesting to hear their views on it all.............in 20 years time.


The above is my opinion. not aimed at anyone. Opinions may vary - but I don't give a sh#t. honestly
Nicely put David.
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Old 12-06-2010, 18:27   #237
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How funny. This shows one of the hazard of direct attacks on the internet, where you really don't know who you are attacking. In my case, it would be a cause for laughter if we were all at a table over drinks, and someone posed this question to me.

I am the very last person that would undertake to do such a voyage, and I have no personal interest in doing it myself - let alone that I am old and weakened, and in no way capable.

So no Hummingbird, you won't see me out there next winter or summer. I have no sights on any records. I really just try to survive from day to day so I can keep working to pay bills. On a good day, I like to get out and enjoy the sun and the wind. Sorry to be such a disappointment to you, but I am in no way your worthy adversary.

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Old 12-06-2010, 18:31   #238
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I must admit I assumed that one was a scam until I saw that it is linked to by her main site. It's certainly not unknown for scam artists to put this kind of site up. I wonder why they have done it as a separate site like that? It doesn't even link back to the main site.

Anyhow the idea of saving it is hopelessly naive I think, just like the idea that was being floated that the fishing boat could have given her a tow. No-one is going to do such a thing in those kind of seas, it's the wrong place and wrong time of year for such tomfoolery, I mean what would happen when the next storm broke a couple of days into the tow? I think the boat will now sink of its own accord long before they get a salvage boat out there, and even if it doesn't the chances of locating it once the EPIRB stops transmitting are remote. I sincerely hope they are going to reimburse all those donations when the plan comes to nothing.
It's either naive or incredibly callous. Something like that could raise a lot of money and reimbursement? Time will tell I suppose.
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Old 12-06-2010, 19:06   #239
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If she does give it a second attempt maybe someone will send her parents a copy of Dr David Lewis's book Icebird. They will certainly learn how "real" sailors do it without crying for help when the boat gets knocked down. Davids book gives a new meaning to the word tenacity! Abby should also read Lesley Powles account of him crossing the Southern Ocean with a head injury without screaming for mommy. I would also suggest that she buys a decent boat like the Contessa 32 which would have handled the moderate southern ocean conditions with ease. Many have done this same voyage in dis-masted yachts under jury rig in much worst conditions without hitting the panic button.
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Old 12-06-2010, 19:25   #240
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I don’t want to get into the mudslinging, but nonetheless, here is a short exert from the latest article on the web in Australia @ http://au.news.yahoo.com/a/-/world/7387699/defence-force-joins-sailors-rescue-team/
The debacle has sparked widespread criticism of the decision to allow a teenage girl to sail solo around the world.
There have also been questions about how much Australian taxpayers will have to stump up for the rescue.
However, one Facebook post stated: "If this would happen to an Aussie close to the United States we would gladly save the person and pay for the rescue costs."
Australian environmentalist and yachtsman Ian Kiernan said the teenager's adventure was irresponsible.
"I don't know what she's doing in the ... ocean as a 16-year-old in the middle of winter," he told Sky News.
"It's just foolhardy. The sea respects no person. We need adventures for sure, but adventurers who do foolhardy things and put their potential rescuers at risk, it should not be allowed."
Abby's father Laurence Sunderland has defended the trek.
"Sailing and life in general is dangerous," he said.
"Teenagers drive cars. Does that mean teenagers shouldn't drive a car?
"I think people who hold that opinion have lost their zeal for life.
"They're living in a cotton-wool tunnel to make everything safe."
Everything else being equal, I do agree with her father’s statement. I also look back at the stories of some of the circumnavigators and maritime adventures of yesteryear especially the times when their damaged boats would be fixed for nothing after they had came to grief in remote locations.

As yachtsman what we probably have to be more aware of is the long-term effect such panic provoking articles will have on our lifestyle? These moral panics are obviously exaggerated by the access most people have to the web and today’s globalised media. Yesteryear no one but the rescuers and locals would have probably know about the yachtsman’s shortcomings until after they had been show a bit of hospitality and had their boat repaired to a seaworthy condition.
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