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Old 12-06-2010, 07:36   #196
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OK Abby's situation is for real, but I still say if ALL adventurers are going to keep on doing these ill thought out and ill prepared sports then eventually we will all be paying the price either thru compulsory insurance or government regulations.
But you see that's just it, ALL adventurers are not doing these ill thought out and ill prepared sports. Vendee Globe racers are the most qualified and well prepared sailors you will find anywhere and looks what happens to them from time to time. And most dramatic rescues involve these type of RTW racers not the occasional teenager that makes a record attempt. I can think of several dramatic rescues involving professional racers but only one involving a teenager trying to set a record. Let keep it in perspective.
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Old 12-06-2010, 07:58   #197
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I don't understand the discussion about insurance ... I was under the impression that single-handers basically couldn't get any insurance for any price. Have I been misinformed, or has the situation changed?
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Old 12-06-2010, 08:01   #198
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The real problem is this asinine, idiotic attitude in the USofA these days that everything has to be 100% safe with no risk taking. Followed by blaming the government when things go wrong or worse demanding the government pass another law against living life. I noted the first time across the pond the 'sail hikers' getting jobs on boats that needed crew. Sweden, England, Germany provided most followed by Canada and finally the US. The reason? The XBox, GameBoy, I can do that on my computer attitude prevalent with the couch potatoes of the US. You don't have to actually do anything is a mentality coupled with the good try syndrome produces lots of self esteem but zero self respect.

And as for the home schooling negative comments it's the public schools that teach the entire first paragraph of my comment.

Third is this changing attitude on what is a child and what is an adult. One is a child to the anti-gun crowd until reaching age 22. One is a child according to the proposed changes to the3 medical system until age 27. One can join the military and die in combat while still, apparently, being a child at age 18 although the right to pick up a rucksack and rifle and join the infantry is still a responsibility enjoyed only by those 'children' with full citizenship at said age 18. Girls are excluded from that and restricted to, for the most part non-combat roles. Children can vote at age 18 drive at age 16 but not sail at the same age. Please!

Which is more dangerous? Daily commutes on the LA freeway or sailing a boat offshore?

No matter how it turns or turned out those who 'do' have my respect. Those who carp and complain can blow out their barracks bag.

Michael D.
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Old 12-06-2010, 09:56   #199
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"1) Abby Sunderland has survived over three months at sea solo circumnavigating over which time a few thousand other American teenagers have perished on US highways. How many of those parents wouldn't trade Abby's "unfortunate situation" for their child's life ..... 2 bucks says not one. Had the loving, responsible parents of those dead teenagers spent 1/10th the amount of time preparing their kids to drive that Abby's "irresponsible" parents spent prepairing her for the solo circumnavigation ..... then many , if not most, of those kids might still be alive today."

OUCH! Mostly because it is 100 percent true.

A couple of years back, when I first was bitten by the sailing bug, I sat and listened to a pack of supposedly on the water experts screaming because a young person had died while trying to assist a boat that was in trouble, or might have been in trouble. They were screaming about how it was the guy in the boats fault that the young person got into a boat not fit for the conditions, and died trying to help someone else. This happened on another sailing board.
When I commented that from the story as they told it, the young one that died, broke all the same rules that the person they were railing against did, and more. That the person's own actions led to their death.
I was given a lifetime ban from the site for that comment.
I kinda take these discussions for what they are worth, and the sailing community is as bad about hypocrisy as any other group.
My children are grown, but if you ask me if I would rather have seen one of them fall trying to reach their dreams, rather than never pursuing them, I would have to speak in respectful remembrance of their attempt. Given that one of them has returned from Iraq, and may have to go to Afghanistan yet, I do not make that statement lightly or without thought.
I am 51, and I am disabled, but I would change places with this young lady in a heart beat, and I envy her.
I believe her parents have done her no disservice in preparing her and then letting her go when it came her time. Sometimes, the scars are more precious than the trophies.
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Old 12-06-2010, 09:57   #200
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In assessing the issue of danger - let's not forget that the whole point of the exercise is based on 3 issues: 1) gender; 2) age; 3) speed. I don't care about the gender issue (frankly - I don't see it as an issue - each gender is equally capable/incapable). Let's look at the speed issue. If this was a leisurely ATW tour exercising shelter-seeking prudence when appropriate I would still be concerned about a young person doing it ALONE. But its a race. That means that you go, go go even if conditions are bad. Really bad. Really really really bad. So here we have a young person, going going going in really really really bad conditions (that may be one 'really' too many but from my perspective I'd add the extra 'really'). I get the 'we climb Mt. Everest because its there' attitude. Human nature. Mark is dead on about this. Maybe we could train kids in the womb for this - wouldn't that be cool? At some age - it is absurd. And negligent. Pick your age. Sliding scale and slippery slope. No one can deny the danger of where Abby is - it IS dangerous. Maybe not as dangerous as other ridiculous comparables that people are using - but dangerous nonetheless. Yes, I can get killed walking a block to the food mart - that kind of argument is pointless here. Why are posters trying to minimize the danger here - its the same as glorifying what Abby is doing. Even had she succeeded my opinion would be the same. Sorry, gotta go - my 2 year old is out of diapers and needs to gybe and without diapers she may not float (she's a good swimmer so wht should she have a life jacket?). Cheers,
Bill
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Old 12-06-2010, 10:15   #201
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Originally Posted by Ahnlaashock View Post
"1) Abby Sunderland has survived over three months at sea solo circumnavigating over which time a few thousand other American teenagers have perished on US highways. How many of those parents wouldn't trade Abby's "unfortunate situation" for their child's life ..... 2 bucks says not one. Had the loving, responsible parents of those dead teenagers spent 1/10th the amount of time preparing their kids to drive that Abby's "irresponsible" parents spent prepairing her for the solo circumnavigation ..... then many , if not most, of those kids might still be alive today."

OUCH! Mostly because it is 100 percent true.

A couple of years back, when I first was bitten by the sailing bug, I sat and listened to a pack of supposedly on the water experts screaming because a young person had died while trying to assist a boat that was in trouble, or might have been in trouble. They were screaming about how it was the guy in the boats fault that the young person got into a boat not fit for the conditions, and died trying to help someone else. This happened on another sailing board.
When I commented that from the story as they told it, the young one that died, broke all the same rules that the person they were railing against did, and more. That the person's own actions led to their death.
I was given a lifetime ban from the site for that comment.
I kinda take these discussions for what they are worth, and the sailing community is as bad about hypocrisy as any other group.
My children are grown, but if you ask me if I would rather have seen one of them fall trying to reach their dreams, rather than never pursuing them, I would have to speak in respectful remembrance of their attempt. Given that one of them has returned from Iraq, and may have to go to Afghanistan yet, I do not make that statement lightly or without thought.
I am 51, and I am disabled, but I would change places with this young lady in a heart beat, and I envy her.
I believe her parents have done her no disservice in preparing her and then letting her go when it came her time. Sometimes, the scars are more precious than the trophies.
Excellent post, thank you for writing it.
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Old 12-06-2010, 10:33   #202
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Abby speaks for herself:

"A NOTE FROM ABBY
"Saturday, June 12, 2010

"Hey everyone,

"Sorry I haven't written in so long as you probably already know I had a pretty rough couple of days. I can't write much now as I am typing on a french key pad as well as trying to stay seated in a bouncy fishing boat.

"The long and the short of it is, well, one long wave, and one short mast (short meaning two inch stub.)"

* * *

To read Abby's message in its entirety, go to:

Abby Sunderland | Abigail Sunderland | Wild Eyes | Youngest Solo Circumnavigator | Shoecity.com Sponsor

TaoJones
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Old 12-06-2010, 10:40   #203
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"The ability to sail any where is a privilege not a right to be abused."

I think the ability to sail anywhere (in international waters) might be a right, but the rescue is the privilege not to be abused.
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Old 12-06-2010, 10:44   #204
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"1)I believe her parents have done her no disservice in preparing her and then letting her go when it came her time. Sometimes, the scars are more precious than the trophies.
Great post and I love the "scars" observation... what seems to get misplaced in the torrent of “Monday morning quarterbacking” is that Abby’s family has significant sailing skill and knowledgeable appreciation for the risks (probably more than you’d find accumulated in many sailing marinas) and even they can get skunked by the ocean… If it was easy, we’d all do it…

But is sounds like Abby kept her head and while most of the world prayed for her safety, or wrung their hands, she was managing… one can argue many things, but like Jessica’s attempt, these were not Sunday afternoon whims, but rather seaman like efforts that were the culmination of months and years of planning – being human endeavors, there doubtless were areas worthy of a second guess, but not for lack of skill or preparation, nor errant family expectations… look at the last Vendee, as I recall barely more than a third of the entrants completed… that’s just a tough stretch of ocean…
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Old 12-06-2010, 11:23   #205
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10 Days ago I was in the same area....conditions..

On a tanker ship at Diego Garcia south end of the Chagos Archipelago. Many of us noted we were having a longer than normal wait for the dry season. Rain, squalls, the occasional larger storm occured once or twice a week. Of course we had no idea that not far to the south and east was a small singlehander sail boat.

As these waters are on my own route plan now that it's sail and not steam or diesel and boat not ship I've been paying close attention to the weather. There is a major difference though between a near 700' long ship and a 30 or so foot sailboat and that is speed.

The ships easily move to avoid bad weather. We've got lots of equipment to get the information and recommendations and move at 15 plus knots. Not so on small craft. One may have wFax or information from the ham/marine band rig but by the time the warning is issued it's still 5-6 knots to outrun or sidestep.

Therein lies a major difference between cruising and racing as was pointed out in an earlier post.

If some weather genie would give me warning I will willingly become the oldest person to do whatever. I can pick and choose my windows of weather opportunity and take my time. Not so in any sort of race.

So what are the worst things that can/will happen now.

1. The boat is gone in all probability
2. One has to suffer the cruel and unthinking barbs of those who never measured up to the starting line much less got to first or second base.
3. In this type of event the once chance is gone.

I'm reminded of Tania Abei who was in her youth the first woman/female/girl to solo circumnavigate Yes the FIRST. I don't give a rat's ass about those from #2 above who said well she did one leg with someone on board. If you don't remember that leg was from one island to another - and she returned to the exact point on the voyage plan and continued thus completing the first solo circumnavigation. Yet the #2's said she was didsqualified? I don't think so. I never found out but I suspect none of them ever made it to the start line.

Tania did and Abbey will go on and I for one will ignore those who for the most part never got to the finish linel, the start line, or much past the screen of their computer. They've already proved they are first seed and so are their parents.

But back to the route. Croossing further north and then cutting south to say Reunion before heading down to S.Africa would have been longer but much much safer. It's probably the way I'll go. Besides the Chagos is a not to be missed stopping point for any cruiser. As for the record books... I'll be happy to just buy my own Guiness.

OK MMQB's go ahead and send your 16 year old out to play on the freeways. Ya'll will feel much better about it I'm sure and no one will complain...killing or injuring kids, endangering I think is the word, that way is far too commonplace

M.



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Old 12-06-2010, 11:25   #206
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I just read her entire post. I am exhilarated and teary-eyed. Regretfully, some don't get it. But that is what makes "getting it" so very unique and valuable in a world that often looses track of true value.

Nothing else to say. She has it right.

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Old 12-06-2010, 12:00   #207
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I just read her entire post. I am exhilarated and teary-eyed. Regretfully, some don't get it. But that is what makes "getting it" so very unique and valuable in a world that often looses track of true value.

Nothing else to say. She has it right.

~
So ... next winter we can expect you to be transiting those waters? We can expect a record setting attempt from you?

Those of you who think this was such a great idea it begs the question, why aren't you doing it?
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Old 12-06-2010, 12:31   #208
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Well I have nothing more to say on this topic.

I will leave you an image.



Please remember this image the next time a teen, male or female heads off to 'break' this insane 'record'.



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Old 12-06-2010, 12:40   #209
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Just saw this thread and haven't read all the posts.

I think her parents should be charged with child abuse.
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Old 12-06-2010, 12:43   #210
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I'm so glad she is in safer circumstances and I wish her a safe journey home.
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