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Old 11-06-2010, 22:47   #271
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Originally Posted by Kanani View Post
That would be great news.

I see that you are from NZ. You guys are a lot more used to this stuff. Americans get all wheezy about it. Do you have a link to that report?
Yup. Go to...Sailor Abby Sunderland found safe in Indian Ocean | Reuters
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Old 11-06-2010, 22:50   #272
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Hell's teeth. The article at the above site goes on to say she's lost her keel!!!
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Old 11-06-2010, 23:16   #273
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Hell's teeth. The article at the above site goes on to say she's lost her keel!!!
There was another one that said she'd righted her boat Think it was from ABC but don't remember which "A".


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Old 11-06-2010, 23:26   #274
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Hell's teeth. The article at the above site goes on to say she's lost her keel!!!
I saw that too. I don't know how they determined that. You can't see the keel from an aircraft or inside the boat. With the mast gone, the boat would be terribly unbalanced and it would roll like crazy. Maybe that's what they saw.
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Old 11-06-2010, 23:28   #275
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I saw that too. I don't know how they determined that. You can't see the keel from an aircraft or inside the boat. With the mast gone, the boat would be terribly unbalanced and it would roll like crazy. Maybe that's what they saw.
She may have reported such to the Airbus crew, but then again the media might just be maiking it up as they go along.
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Old 12-06-2010, 14:14   #276
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Other reports state the keel had not detached, so who knows.
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Old 12-06-2010, 14:30   #277
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There was some discussion of the photo earlier in this thread. I did a bit of enhancing, and brought up the object trailing underwater behind the boat. It's most certainly the sail(s).
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Old 12-06-2010, 14:44   #278
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Aren't you required to scuttle ?

I thought it wasn't just good seamanship but a legal requirement that you not create a hazard to navigation by leaving a boat adrift in the open ocean ?

CNN reports ...

Quote:
As for her boat, Wild Eyes, it had to be left in the middle of the ocean
on this page: Stranded teen sailor is 'safe and sound' - CNN.com

I don't know where I got the idea about the legal requirement so maybe I'm completely wrong ?



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Old 12-06-2010, 14:49   #279
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... I did a bit of enhancing, and brought up the object trailing underwater behind the boat. It's most certainly the sail(s).
Thanks Hud, it certainly did the trick for me.
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Old 13-06-2010, 09:09   #280
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In a similar vein, here's a picture taken at the time of the rescue which shows her keel is still attached (from autralian AMSA site). You can also make out that one of the cantilevered solar panels at the stern is still attached, and possibly the other is at a steep angle, though it's a bit hard to make out.
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Old 13-06-2010, 13:11   #281
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Fairly good photos - from them I can surmise that she "pitch-poled" which is not uncommon in the waters of the southern ocean. When the wave height exceeds the length of the boat, the boat will surf dead down the wave front, bury its bow and pitch-pole. A sail and rigging trailing the boat (back stay still attached) are indicative of this situation. IMHO there was little or nothing she or anybody else could have done in those circumstances.
- - Most boats/racers can withstand a knockdown or a complete roll, but I have never heard of a boat surviving a pitch-pole maneuver. It is not uncommon in the southern ocean for wave heights to exceed 10-20 meters since there are no land masses to stop the continuous circulation around the planet. Like in the Atlantic Gulf Stream, when the winds oppose the wave train they get taller and steeper more like "square waves" than rolling hills.
- - In short, a really bad spot of luck - she was in the wrong place at the wrong time. From a satellite photo somebody posted on this forum a few days ago giving her location and the satellite weather, she appeared to be right in the northern edge of a major storm area. In 20-20 hindsight maybe she should have been routed further north instead of trying to "cut straight across" through the northern edge of the storm system.
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Old 13-06-2010, 13:47   #282
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When the wave height exceeds the length of the boat, the boat will surf dead down the wave front, bury its bow and pitch-pole. A sail and rigging trailing the boat (back stay still attached) are indicative of this situation. IMHO there was little or nothing she or anybody else could have done in those circumstances.
Wouldn't deploying a jordan series drogue prevent this?
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Old 13-06-2010, 14:15   #283
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Wouldn't deploying a jordan series drogue prevent this?
What he said.
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Old 13-06-2010, 21:35   #284
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Not really - a series drogue will slow a boat that is danger of going too fast, e.g. a catamaran. But the drogue is deployed considerably aft of the boat and if a rogue wave taller then the length of the boat "climbs up" your stern the drogue line will be on back side of the rogue wave and your boat on the front side pointing nearly straight down. The forces are so astronomical that probably the drogue line will snap or get pulled off the boat.
- - Think of the surfboarders in Hawaii doing the "Pipeline" - the only safe way down for them is to transverse the vertical wall. That's a hard trick to do in a racing sailboat (or any sailboat) with a tall mast and skinny keel. If you try to transverse the wave front you will probably roll sideways down the wave.
- - There are some places you just do not want to be with a sailboat and surfing down the face of a rogue wave or a Tsumani wave front are at the top of the list. Which is why I supposed that neither she or anybody else could not survive such an incident with the boat intact.
- - With rolls/knockdowns you have upper/lower/intermediate shrouds and spreaders helping to support the mast. In a pitch-pole there is only the forestay and maybe a inner staysail stay, if installed. Not much strength there. From the photos it is difficult to see but it looks like the forestay and shrouds are all stripped off the boat leaving only the backstay to drag the sails and rigging behind.
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Old 13-06-2010, 23:02   #285
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Not really - a series drogue will slow a boat that is danger of going too fast, e.g. a catamaran. But the drogue is deployed considerably aft of the boat and if a rogue wave taller then the length of the boat "climbs up" your stern the drogue line will be on back side of the rogue wave and your boat on the front side pointing nearly straight down. The forces are so astronomical that probably the drogue line will snap or get pulled off the boat.
- - Think of the surfboarders in Hawaii doing the "Pipeline" - the only safe way down for them is to transverse the vertical wall. That's a hard trick to do in a racing sailboat (or any sailboat) with a tall mast and skinny keel. If you try to transverse the wave front you will probably roll sideways down the wave.
- - There are some places you just do not want to be with a sailboat and surfing down the face of a rogue wave or a Tsumani wave front are at the top of the list. Which is why I supposed that neither she or anybody else could not survive such an incident with the boat intact.
- - With rolls/knockdowns you have upper/lower/intermediate shrouds and spreaders helping to support the mast. In a pitch-pole there is only the forestay and maybe a inner staysail stay, if installed. Not much strength there. From the photos it is difficult to see but it looks like the forestay and shrouds are all stripped off the boat leaving only the backstay to drag the sails and rigging behind.
May I suspectfully suggest you do just a wee bit more research into the operational methods of the JSD, as opposed to ordinary drogues
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