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Old 29-01-2016, 14:09   #46
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Re: 7' bronze cannon found

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Trump making sense 🤔 Now thats funny 😂
He will probably rename the White House. Trump House? Maybe even tear it down and put up an nice high rise condo/hotel development.
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Old 29-01-2016, 14:50   #47
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Re: 7' bronze cannon found

Amazing that the indignant are mortified by the possibility that someone might "steal" an artifact off an unlikely war grave not using proper archeological methods.

Yet sit in the cockpit while Al Queda and ISIS blow up and loot archeological sites.

Actions speak louder than words.
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Old 29-01-2016, 14:54   #48
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Re: 7' bronze cannon found

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Amazing that the indignant are mortified by the possibility that someone might "steal" an artifact off an unlikely war grave not using proper archeological methods.

Yet sit in the cockpit while Al Queda and ISIS blow up and loot archeological sites.

Actions speak louder than words.
wow. That is so deep that i missed entirely the connection.
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Old 29-01-2016, 15:38   #49
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Re: 7' bronze cannon found

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Not to mention the potential to be charged with being "an accessory" if his buyers do end up pilfering it. May not stick outside that island's jurisdiction but the guy may be in for nasty surprise if he ever goes back.
The obvious legal defense would be that he was selling the information so that divers could dive to enjoy looking at it, not to steal it, and that he is not responsible for misuse of the information. In a common law jurisdiction like St Kitts, selling the information would not be prosecutable. Still, it's a bozo maneuver and I hope he doesn't get any serious money.
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Old 29-01-2016, 17:46   #50
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pirate Re: 7' bronze cannon found

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In


Q: How you determine it is bronze and 16th century. I am thinking it could be iron of a later vintage. I'll be in the area later in season, and this may be less expensive than even a bar for interesting entertainment. Jan-28-16

A: I did some basic research and based on what I found out am guessing that it is bronze. But it certainly could be iron. Same with the date. I visited the Brimstone Fort where there are dozens of similar (identical) cannons that were from the late 1600s. So again, I am making a very basic assumption. But heck, someone could have made this thing in 1987 and put it there just for my amusement. Yes, the whole thing is just for fun. I was quite excited to stumble upon it and thought that perhaps another would-be treasure hunter (although I wasn't hunting for anything except for my anchor, to be sure it was set well in 30 knots of wind) might enjoy the hunt as well. You are correct that it might indeed cost you less - and with much more enjoyment and less of a hangover - than a night at the bar. If you're with your friends, anchor nearby and see who finds it first. Winner buys the drinks! The only caveat is that to do any actual excavation or messing around you will need a permit from the St Kitts government. This could take months, or years. And it might take another year to actually dig up something of value. Which may or may not be there. Then again after you find the cannon, YOU can auction the location off on ebay and get all your money back! HA!
The quote above is a question I sent on eBay to the cannon lister. I followed up with another question, and received the following quoted reply, which I feel is very appropriate, especially as to the usual suspects on CF (unfortunately I did not save my follow up, but the referenced reply makes the context pretty clear):

"You can post it anywhere you like. I have VERY thick skin - obviously. Actually, I don't follow the CF, but I was at dinner last night with a bunch of cruiser friends who are getting great delight at all the busy-bodies, ignorant fools, and politically-correct police who have nothing better to do than spout their absurd opinions about whatever catches their fancy for the moment. Anchors, generators, baseball, bottom paint, cannons.... it really doesn't matter: someone will have an 'informed' opinion and someone else will disagree. This all brings new meaning to the term, 'Get a Life!'.

"My friends showed me some of the comments on CF and I must say we all had a raucous laugh at the stupidity of most of them. I particularly liked the thread about Jimmy Hoffa. Wasn't he Jimmy Carter's vice president? No wait, I think he was Dustin Hoffman's cousin. I think he's in Cuba. Would he fit inside a cannon?

"Anyway, I'm having great fun with all this. We're not in Grenada yet, and won't be for another month or so. I'm busy finding cannons. And you can also post THIS anywhere you like.

"By the way, I am donating my ebay 'winnings' to a local charity - in this case the PALS in St Kitts (PALS Charity Works with Government to Support the Health of Children in St. Kitts and Nevis‏ - The St. Kitts And Nevis Observer). I challenge all those CF dorks to do the same."
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Old 29-01-2016, 21:46   #51
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Re: 7' bronze cannon found

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Originally Posted by buzzstar View Post
The quote above is a question I sent on eBay to the cannon lister. I followed up with another question, and received the following quoted reply, which I feel is very appropriate, especially as to the usual suspects on CF (unfortunately I did not save my follow up, but the referenced reply makes the context pretty clear):

"You can post it anywhere you like. I have VERY thick skin - obviously. Actually, I don't follow the CF, but I was at dinner last night with a bunch of cruiser friends who are getting great delight at all the busy-bodies, ignorant fools, and politically-correct police who have nothing better to do than spout their absurd opinions about whatever catches their fancy for the moment. Anchors, generators, baseball, bottom paint, cannons.... it really doesn't matter: someone will have an 'informed' opinion and someone else will disagree. This all brings new meaning to the term, 'Get a Life!'.

"My friends showed me some of the comments on CF and I must say we all had a raucous laugh at the stupidity of most of them. I particularly liked the thread about Jimmy Hoffa. Wasn't he Jimmy Carter's vice president? No wait, I think he was Dustin Hoffman's cousin. I think he's in Cuba. Would he fit inside a cannon?

"Anyway, I'm having great fun with all this. We're not in Grenada yet, and won't be for another month or so. I'm busy finding cannons. And you can also post THIS anywhere you like.

"By the way, I am donating my ebay 'winnings' to a local charity - in this case the PALS in St Kitts (PALS Charity Works with Government to Support the Health of Children in St. Kitts and Nevis‏ - The St. Kitts And Nevis Observer). I challenge all those CF dorks to do the same."
Well it is good that the finder has some idea of the obligations of obtaining permit etc. And it is also nice that he has suggested that the proceeds would go to charity… but there is a legally enforced obligation in St. Kitts and Nevis law to declare any such find to the Receiver of Wrecks:


271. Duties of finder, etc. of wreck.
(1) If any person finds or takes possession of any wreck in Saint Christopher and Nevis waters or finds or takes possession of any wreck outside Saint Christopher and Nevis waters and brings it within those waters he or she shall,
(a) if he or she is the owner of it, give notice to the Receiver stating that he or she has found or taken possession of it and describing the marks by which it may be recognised; or
(b) if he or she is not the owner of it, give notice to the Receiver that he or she has found or taken possession of it and, as directed by the Receiver, either hold it to the Receiver’s order or deliver it to the Receiver.
(2) If any person fails, without reasonable excuse, to comply with subsection (1), he or she commits an offence and is liable, on summary conviction, to a fine not exceeding level 4 on the standard scale, and if he or she is not the owner of the wreck he or she shall also
(a) forfeit any claim to salvage; and
(b) be liable to pay twice the value of the wreck


To those suggesting that St. Kitts and Nevis has not considered this, or else may have a haphazard and or corrupt view on the protection of historic wrecks and other sites of cultural significance, it may interest you to know that in addition to being a ratifying nation to the 1989 International Convention On Salvage, the country is also one of only 47 nations worldwide to have fully ratified the extremely stringent UNESCO Convention on the Protection of Underwater Cultural Heritage, which ratified has the force of international law.

Convention on the Protection of the Underwater Cultural Heritage
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Old 29-01-2016, 21:58   #52
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Re: 7' bronze cannon found

Oh come on Muckle Fluga (ive just realised the purpose of your name ) and Buzzstar

Get on with ya sailing, both of you. It's a damn cannon, nothing else. Probably a garden ornament.
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Old 29-01-2016, 22:54   #53
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pirate Re: 7' bronze cannon found

I am going to takes Rustic's impolite and unsought suggestion, but make a couple of comments first:

Muckle Fluga needs to learn to read and understand before attempting to apply law. His statement is incorrect.

Rustic gives Oz an undeserved bad reputation and even more so as to Tasmania. He is the sort that the finder probably wanted to keep from knowing the location. If he been about at the time he' probably have destroyed the antikythera mechanism if he'd found it, saying it was just a corroded watch. Sailing is one thing, assisting the Taliban in destroying human heritage is another.
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Old 29-01-2016, 23:20   #54
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Re: 7' bronze cannon found

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Originally Posted by buzzstar View Post
I am going to takes Rustic's impolite and unsought suggestion, but make a couple of comments first:

Muckle Fluga needs to learn to read and understand before attempting to apply law. His statement is incorrect.

Rustic gives Oz an undeserved bad reputation and even more so as to Tasmania. He is the sort that the finder probably wanted to keep from knowing the location. If he been about at the time he' probably have destroyed the antikythera mechanism if he'd found it, saying it was just a corroded watch. Sailing is one thing, assisting the Taliban in destroying human heritage is another.
Well, remarkable that I managed to bluff my way through two master's and a PhD, as well as teaching at a Russell Group university, isn't it? There is a clear obligation to declare discovered wrecks to the Receiver of Wreck in that nation, and not auction its location to some random highest bidder on EBay, for whatever motive. Your words about RC make zero sense, either.

And, Rustic, yeah, I am going to leave the discussion where it is. Enough has been said, but I have a particular sensitivity as have recently had one of my favourite wrecks destroyed by an illegal salvage operation, though that was a WWI wreck and the motives appeared to have been high value scrap (brass, mainly) recovery.
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Old 29-01-2016, 23:46   #55
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Re: 7' bronze cannon found

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Originally Posted by buzzstar View Post
I am going to takes Rustic's impolite and unsought suggestion, but make a couple of comments first:

Muckle Fluga needs to learn to read and understand before attempting to apply law. His statement is incorrect.

Rustic gives Oz an undeserved bad reputation and even more so as to Tasmania. He is the sort that the finder probably wanted to keep from knowing the location. If he been about at the time he' probably have destroyed the antikythera mechanism if he'd found it, saying it was just a corroded watch. Sailing is one thing, assisting the Taliban in destroying human heritage is another.
Wow i suggest stopping the bickering and moving on and this is what you come back with and the Taliban accusation wow. Just, wow!
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Old 29-01-2016, 23:55   #56
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Re: 7' bronze cannon found

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Well, remarkable that I managed to bluff my way through two master's and a PhD, as well as teaching at a Russell Group university, isn't it? There is a clear obligation to declare discovered wrecks to the Receiver of Wreck in that nation, and not auction its location to some random highest bidder on EBay, for whatever motive. Your words about RC make zero sense, either.

And, Rustic, yeah, I am going to leave the discussion where it is. Enough has been said, but I have a particular sensitivity as have recently had one of my favourite wrecks destroyed by an illegal salvage operation, though that was a WWI wreck and the motives appeared to have been high value scrap (brass, mainly) recovery.
im with you on this one. But its well and truly going around in a circle and at times getting a bit rediculous. IMO.
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Old 30-01-2016, 05:04   #57
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Re: 7' bronze cannon found

My Dear Muckle Flugga -

Russell Group university? You're actually bragging about this?

And I've seen you and your boat. I suggest you immediately report yourself and your 'boat' to the Receiver of Wrecks wherever you happen to be before you get into trouble for attempting to leave the country with prehistoric artifacts.
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Old 30-01-2016, 05:10   #58
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Re: 7' bronze cannon found

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My Dear Muckle Flugga -

Russell Group university? You're actually bragging about this?

And I've seen you and your boat. I suggest you immediately report yourself and your 'boat' to the Receiver of Wrecks wherever you happen to be before you get into trouble for attempting to leave the country with prehistoric artifacts.
There fairly prestigious universities , so why shouldnt he brag about them
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Old 30-01-2016, 05:44   #59
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Re: 7' bronze cannon found

Darn,

I missed all the fun... And the auction deadline... That woulda looked sweet mounted on my foredeck... I was picturing a vertical locking position for a Sampson post... Although... I'd obviously have to have some manner of firing mechanism lockout in that position...

(love the av Jaganda!)
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Old 30-01-2016, 10:14   #60
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Re: 7' bronze cannon found

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My Dear Muckle Flugga -

Russell Group university? You're actually bragging about this?

And I've seen you and your boat. I suggest you immediately report yourself and your 'boat' to the Receiver of Wrecks wherever you happen to be before you get into trouble for attempting to leave the country with prehistoric artifacts.
WTF are you talking about? Is this supposed to be funny?

Your post is bullschit and should be moderated.
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