Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 10-12-2012, 13:01   #76
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 17,314
Re: 3 ARC boats divert to Cape Verde with damage/injuries

IMHO the type of rudder does not count. All rudders have to be built to last and, in case of boats used for offshore, the rudder should be man enough to take a major bang or a minor grounding. I think there was a Delphia in this ARC too that had rudder issues. ARC site does not say what it was though. b.
__________________

__________________
barnakiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2012, 13:11   #77
֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,056
Re: 3 ARC boats divert to Cape Verde with damage/injuries

I have more admiration for the Norsemen who went viking in longboats with steering boards. No rudder, no moving parts under the hull to break while inaccessible.

Even in a one-foot chop, I prefer to wear a wetsuit hood (neoprene) AND a double wool cap over that, because that's my head banging against the boat and damn, all that padding helps.

Between buoyancy control to stay down, and breathing, and juggling pieces, and banging the head or trying not to, even a simple short job like cutting a line off the prop can be exhausting. Wrenching around with rudder gudgeons in the open sea? Oh yeah, that kind of fun I can do without.

Boat bangs head, MOB is now unconcious, boat has no steerage, I sure hope there's a safety line around his waist. That doesn't foul and drown him all the faster.
__________________

__________________
hellosailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2012, 17:05   #78
Senior Cruiser
 
skipmac's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: 29° 49.16’ N 82° 25.82’ W
Boat: Pearson 422
Posts: 12,388
Re: 3 ARC boats divert to Cape Verde with damage/injuries

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeepFrz View Post
I like the cassette type spare rudder. Trying to attach a spade rudder into gudgeons in a rough sea could be quite difficult. Slipping the rudder into a cassette would be much easier and you could even make the cassette slip in to gudgeons on the stern. There should be a write up on this on the PAC web site.

Note: I call it cassette type but it has been quite a few years since I looked at the information. It might be called something else.
Never heard the term before but a little google search turned up a couple of articles about cassette rudders. Sounds like a slight variation on what I was thinking, just separating the rudder blade from the gudgeon and pintle and adding some sort of slot or bracket to hold the blade. Time to do a little further digging.

Thanks for the info.

PS

Pardon my ignorance but what's PAC (Political Action Committee, Pacific-Atlantic Cruisers)?
__________________
The water is always bluer on the other side of the ocean.
skipmac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2012, 17:21   #79
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Mackay,QLD, Australia
Boat: planning a approx 45ft cat
Posts: 3,651
Images: 3
Re: 3 ARC boats divert to Cape Verde with damage/injuries

Quote:
Originally Posted by sabray View Post
So still what exactly do you get for your dollar. Not trying to pick a fight but looking for a contract that explains what it is purchased. So far I get a dinghy race weather routing maybe you also get companionship [ think that's illegal in most places], something Tribal, uhh sense if security [ can't be measured}.somewhere 400 thousand is spent. Please explain.
Clearly not your choice.

Having met a number of the ARC paticipants after their entry into Australia at Mackay, my hometown and a number of others involved in a NZPacific rally joining a rally is something I would consider in particular for easing the entry into some countries and lets say the Panamar canal. At Mackay a number of locals as well a a couple of the Great Barrier Reefs most experienced skippers spent 1/2 day with various participants briefing and offering suggestions as to their itinery.

No way I would attempt a full circumnavigation on the ARC's rushed itinery but many join on legs that suit.

Met some nice people, also.
__________________
downunder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2012, 17:22   #80
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Tampa Florida
Boat: R.WOODS 36ft CATAMARAN
Posts: 505
Re: 3 ARC boats divert to Cape Verde with damage/injuries

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lagoon4us View Post
Not your worry then BUT a lot of people evaluate the benefits and join up, CF members on this years ARC have done very well, maybe you do your sailing alone and privately well good for you!
Cheers
All sailing is done alone
__________________
georgetheleo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2012, 17:23   #81
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,949
Re: 3 ARC boats divert to Cape Verde with damage/injuries

I almost hate to say this as it could lead to a big argument, but one advantage of cats offshore is that you have a backup rudder right there and working for you.
__________________
Kettlewell Cruising
Kettlewell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2012, 17:25   #82
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Mackay,QLD, Australia
Boat: planning a approx 45ft cat
Posts: 3,651
Images: 3
Re: 3 ARC boats divert to Cape Verde with damage/injuries

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kettlewell View Post
I almost hate to say this as it could lead to a big argument, but one advantage of cats offshore is that you have a backup rudder right there and working for you.
+2 Motors, alternator also.
__________________
downunder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2012, 23:53   #83
Senior Cruiser
 
DeepFrz's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Winnipeg
Boat: None at this time
Posts: 7,930
Re: 3 ARC boats divert to Cape Verde with damage/injuries

skipmac, I was referring to the Pacific Cup. I thought it was called PAC but I guess its referred to as Trans Pac.
__________________
DeepFrz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2012, 00:53   #84
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Fethiye Turkey
Boat: Lagoon 440
Posts: 3,164
Re: 3 ARC boats divert to Cape Verde with damage/injuries

Quote:
Originally Posted by georgetheleo View Post

All sailing is done alone
Maybe get a friend George? Cat's are good!!!!!!
__________________
"Political correctness is a creeping sickness that knows no boundaries"
Lagoon4us is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2012, 02:13   #85
Sponsoring Vendor

Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 3
Images: 1
Send a message via Skype™ to aventuraplus
Re: 3 ARC boats divert to Cape Verde with damage/injuries

Quote:
Originally Posted by skipmac View Post
This does look like a wild and crazy party, but was it $2000 worth of fun? I think might be able to have even more fun than this for less.

Just imagine how much whipped cream you can buy for half the money.
It is expensive but you are able to meet many other crew members but most of all: learn and exchange experience from each-other.
I was in Las Palmas a couple of days before the race started and after sailing the Lady Ann on a pré-ARC trip from Gibraltar to Madeira and Gran Canaria. The atmosphere is great and at the same time tense, just before the departure where sometimes good old "Murphy" comes on board.
The ARC is not a SAR. Other participants are able to help each other in case of a distress and when things would really go wrong.
And of course, I enjoy the pictures and reading the logs when sitting here at home in these cold winter days.
aventuraplus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2012, 03:10   #86
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Fethiye Turkey
Boat: Lagoon 440
Posts: 3,164
Re: 3 ARC boats divert to Cape Verde with damage/injuries

Quote:
Originally Posted by georgetheleo View Post

All sailing is done alone
Here's a Cat for you George, nice one too...
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	kitten.jpg
Views:	100
Size:	121.2 KB
ID:	51034  
__________________
"Political correctness is a creeping sickness that knows no boundaries"
Lagoon4us is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2012, 03:56   #87
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 17,314
Re: 3 ARC boats divert to Cape Verde with damage/injuries

A very simple cassette rudder can be seen here: First 20 / First / Sailing Yachts - BENETEAU

Just a light (but rigid) alloy frame where the foil can be lowered or removed. Easy to build and probably deployable in nearly any weather.

I think in emergency kits the foil can be actually reused as a (shelf?) or something.

b.
__________________
barnakiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2012, 04:13   #88
Armchair Bucketeer
 
David_Old_Jersey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,013
Images: 4
Re: 3 ARC boats divert to Cape Verde with damage/injuries

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lagoon4us View Post
Yes absolutely BUT in life we do things that may seen irrational to others because i guess we don't answer to others nor should we.

People enter ARC for some of the following:-
Security.
Companionship.
Fellowship.
Tribal feelings.
Security.
Fun.
Guidance.
Competition.
Organisation.
I guess the ARC (etc) just goes to show that cruising / simply messing around in boats is a broad church. and IMO that is a good thing .

Whilst I don't personally see any attraction in such things (mostly centred about me not being a people person - on the internet I can easily switch you f#ckers all off ) - but in the right circumstances I would not rule it out.
David_Old_Jersey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2012, 04:58   #89
Registered User
 
Zanshin's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Caribbean
Boat: Jeanneau 57
Posts: 1,621
Re: 3 ARC boats divert to Cape Verde with damage/injuries

Lagoon4us - the hypothetical part is the "rub" in this case. It is easy for people to hypothesize about what others could have done and what sailing theory states can be done when losing steerage. I've trained using sail balance with the wheel locked on my boats and when in 15-20 knots of gusty winds with 2 meter swells (i.e. normal offshore conditions) self-steering is possible but difficult and the boat points generally in the right direction with swings of 30-40 degrees in each direction. With a rudder the boat becomes unsteerable but even there one could jury-rig an interior door with a spi pole to makeshift a rudder - except in a bigger boat the forces become very, very high. But even there all it takes is a wave higher than half the LWL to come from the side just as the boat is in a 30 degree swing phase and suddenly you roll. I'm sorry if I over-reacted, but I know that incredible feeling of helplessness when alone at sea with severe problems like this and when people who haven't had that happen state that a skipper should have been able to steer the boat (because they read it in a textbook) it irks me.
Just as an aside - this happened to me in a Jeanneau 43. Using the prop just turned the boat in wide 360s. I tried using the 10hp dinghy but in ocean waves that didn't work. I tried dragging all the lines I had with buckets and other drag devices behind me and then used the engine - that just turned bigger circles. If I had been fully offshore I would have tried a door and pole but I managed to contact shore to get a boat to tow - so I didn't master the situation. The tow was going to be cheaper than replacing cabinetry and all that I had to do was rock and roll for 24 hours; but anyone who has had this happen far offshore and improvised to successfully avert disaster deserves kudos and respect.
__________________
-Zanshin (SV Zanshin)
Zanshin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2012, 06:48   #90
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Fethiye Turkey
Boat: Lagoon 440
Posts: 3,164
Re: 3 ARC boats divert to Cape Verde with damage/injuries

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zanshin View Post
Lagoon4us - the hypothetical part is the "rub" in this case. It is easy for people to hypothesize about what others could have done and what sailing theory states can be done when losing steerage. I've trained using sail balance with the wheel locked on my boats and when in 15-20 knots of gusty winds with 2 meter swells (i.e. normal offshore conditions) self-steering is possible but difficult and the boat points generally in the right direction with swings of 30-40 degrees in each direction. With a rudder the boat becomes unsteerable but even there one could jury-rig an interior door with a spi pole to makeshift a rudder - except in a bigger boat the forces become very, very high. But even there all it takes is a wave higher than half the LWL to come from the side just as the boat is in a 30 degree swing phase and suddenly you roll. I'm sorry if I over-reacted, but I know that incredible feeling of helplessness when alone at sea with severe problems like this and when people who haven't had that happen state that a skipper should have been able to steer the boat (because they read it in a textbook) it irks me.
Just as an aside - this happened to me in a Jeanneau 43. Using the prop just turned the boat in wide 360s. I tried using the 10hp dinghy but in ocean waves that didn't work. I tried dragging all the lines I had with buckets and other drag devices behind me and then used the engine - that just turned bigger circles. If I had been fully offshore I would have tried a door and pole but I managed to contact shore to get a boat to tow - so I didn't master the situation. The tow was going to be cheaper than replacing cabinetry and all that I had to do was rock and roll for 24 hours; but anyone who has had this happen far offshore and improvised to successfully avert disaster deserves kudos and respect.
When people who haven't had that happen state that a skipper should have been able to steer the boat (because they read it in a textbook) it irks me.

And on the other side you also do not know the experience of others. How can you say BECAUSE THEY READ IT IN A TEXT BOOK?

Quite honestly YOUR comment irks me.
__________________

__________________
"Political correctness is a creeping sickness that knows no boundaries"
Lagoon4us is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
arc, Cape Verde

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:54.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.