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Old 09-12-2012, 09:02   #46
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Re: 3 ARC boats divert to Cape Verde with damage/injuries

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Originally Posted by foolishsailor View Post
Mark,

Same difference. Only a fool lives on maxed out cards, but then again only a fool owns a boat where an emergency exceeds his ability to recover from. I live in Ireland and we never use credit cards, but I have two high limit cards on my boat for exactly this type of event.

Edit: however I would like to think that something a minor as the loss of a rudder would not keep me from making a safe harbour. I have a workshop on my boat for fecks sake, nothing a spinnaker pole and some plywood wouldn't sort out, they were less than 400miles away!

Double edit: and my boat is alloy, and as we know from other threads alloy never breaks!
The credit limit is not the problem. For reasons of fraud protection banks can have reduced authorisation amount on the cards, this especially applies to transactions made outside of the country or even region. It depends on the banks policy. In this case, the transaction was attempted outside of the EU where the card is not even present.

Most people don't know about this until they try to make a purchase that gets declined for this reason.
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Old 09-12-2012, 09:04   #47
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Re: 3 ARC boats divert to Cape Verde with damage/injuries

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Most people don't know about this until they try to make a purchase that gets declined for this reason.

Like when I was in Grenada....

My bank don't like Grenada! Not at all!!
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Old 09-12-2012, 09:08   #48
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The credit limit is not the problem. For reasons of fraud protection banks can have reduced authorisation amount on the cards, this especially applies to transactions made outside of the country or even region. It depends on the banks policy. In this case, the transaction was attempted outside of the EU where the card is not even present.

Most people don't know about this until they try to make a purchase that gets declined for this reason.
Yes and you can then call the issuing bank to let them know that it is a legitimate authorisation and to free the funds. The boat in question had a sat phone.

If one had foresight one would also confirm the issuers policy about limits and fraud protection and only go with an issuer that allowed a near limit transaction, or work with the tow company and do multiple transactions. It is easy to find a issuer that will allow the full limit in a transaction. I am assuming that the tow company is a transaction and not a cash advance which is a different issue.
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Old 09-12-2012, 09:10   #49
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Re: 3 ARC boats divert to Cape Verde with damage/injuries

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Originally Posted by foolishsailor View Post
Mark,

I have two high limit cards on my boat for exactly this type of event.

Double edit: and my boat is alloy, and as we know from other threads alloy never breaks!
He did not know that his limit was only 1000euros so he thats a lesson learned.

And this boat is in Steel.
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Old 09-12-2012, 09:11   #50
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Re: 3 ARC boats divert to Cape Verde with damage/injuries

Here is what he writes on his own web site lotteogdag.com - www.lotteogdag.com
i used google to get this al in english

(Cape Verde, Mindelo Marina Dec 7. 2012) We write 1 December morning, the fifth day after the start in Las Palmas. Lotte has retrieved advent calendar and sweets in the cockpit. We sail in steady 8-9 knots with Spridda sails, greatly torn spinnaker and genoa on a corner of the mainsail out. The speed jumps and up to 10 to 11 knots or more. The sea and wind into stern - the waves are big and the wind constant 30-40 knots, but mode hums away like a rolling train and take lakes fine. It is simply a great race, I do not think we have sailed so well ever such a long time. We see from ARC updates that we are behind in the field, but it is as expected. We are four board that uses a lot of effort to keep us stuck and we sleep probably pretty bad, but everyone is happy - and the boat is happy.

At 11:40, we must adjust the wind pipe and also the main helm as the boat cut into the wind. The rudder feels odd to starboard, it is almost locked - but it's okay to port. I find it odd that the steering wheel is so heavy, but there and then I guess it is because of the enormous power we have from sea and air. I have to check it later, there is no time to get the ship back on course again. Vindror and ruder set properly. A few minutes later the same thing happens; boat cuts to port and into the wind again. We try to do the same procedure again, adjust the air rudder and unlock the main rudder in neutral. But this time we are unable to steer the boat to starboard. We have full lock to SB but the autopilot display indicates that the wheel is against BB. Something is seriously gærnt. I run down to the engine room to check. Plenty of water everywhere - the splash back and forth. Roper to the others that we take in water, came with buckets - I begin to pump the bilge pump. Lotte and Jan Ludvig open hatch over propellerakselen, water falls into. I ask Mickey continue pumping and see that the water does not come from propellerakselen, it must come from the rudder post. Fully stern there is a large hatch down to rorkvadrant and control. In January Ludvigs help I get removed extra sails and chart located and close for the hatch. Open the hatch and peering down into a giant hole where the blue Atlantic flashes. The seawater surging through rudderstock tube. This is an emergency.

The time is 11:45 December 1, 2012: We have lost the main helm and taking on water. I find out a huge bag with large wooden pegs, which are large enough to cover the rudder post. Banks into a wooden plug with a hammer and secures with a clamp. This appears to hold all the way to shore. Fortunately.

We booms out all the water and cleans up quite well.

It is daylight and good weather and everything is fine - although the lakes of 6-8 meters and the stiff gale and uncomfortable rolling. It is important to hold on and put sjøbein.

Now what? We have only one option, try to sail down to the Cape Verde Islands - we have wind and waves from the east-northeast and we shall then due south. To sail towards the Caribbean (two thousand nautical miles) without a rudder and a boat that might blow leaking further, there is no question. Crossing the headwind and heavy head sea back to Las Palmas is just unthinkable - we have no control and we can not go over the rod. So it has to be Cape Verde: 331 nm away straight south. We have food and water, wind and good sailing and a good engine and good batteries, so this fixes we.

At first it went fine. Puts a small genoa and the small mainsail (which incidentally has frozen, a spile have disputes and will not loosen), wind from the BB. Trimmer wind helm. The boat sails three to four knots and the course is fairly straight south. The chugging away quite okay actually and spirits are high, even though the scrolling really put us to the test. Do I have hardly rolled so much for so many days.

But - how can one of the market's most robust steel boats that are known to be really well screwed together, my Motiva 49, losing the rudder with the rudder trunk mount up with big clamp and down through a heavy base plate with welded nuts and, attached, not least , in a very Skeggs? We must find out later.

A sailboat without a rudder live their own life, obviously - at least my Motiva under these conditions. In real terms, we can not steer or stop it. Therefore, the vessel's course difficult to trim. And we turn too far south, all the time. Whether we put more sail or reversed, if we cut the mainsail, if we set the storm jib with or without a small genoa, if we go for motor supportive or if we drive anchor close to the stern or far behind - the boat cuts too much into the wind thereby southeast. The boat can be actually not control. Wind rudder helps a little and drive the anchor out in the SB the same. We discuss other alternative control methods including the use of spnnakerbommen is the most obvious, but I shelves because it is too dangerous to retrieve the boom from the mast and carry it astern, and partly because the boom (and / or styretampene) would be able to knock down the wind pipe and spoil this. Then we would be completely out of control. Wave height is around 4-8 meters, but we also see a couple of ten meters. On day two loosened the lower vindrorfestet and hovedbraketten broke, something we nødreparerte but surely weakened the strength of the wind pipe. In order to fasten the air inside the helm again we had to rip out apteringen stern and I even creep into the swim platform inside while Mickey turned outside. A necessary but hazardous operation that I probably should talk to Hydrovane about.

We are going south to hit Cape Verde - eventually we have to southwest because we run out of more and more. The speed is really quite good, we make steady three to four knots. With the engine running, we can improve the speed, but the drift is even bigger if we trim the sails down, and drive the anchor closer to the boat transom - that is the only good solution, it turns out after hours with different trimming. The engine cuts after fifteen hours of walking. We stand on your head to get it going in re, but it is futile - the engine is perhaps influenced by the violent rolling the pump might not feed enough and / or we have clogged filters, I do not know. We need to provide the engine because the work down in the engine room is dangerous, but it means nothing because we are sailing better without. The same applies spinnaker boom that stood deadlocked the first few days - I considered it too dangerous to go on the foredeck and take it down, but ultimately there was no prayer. We got it down and up the mast properly for good planning, despite violent seas.

After three days of straightforward race we had to make a choice: either continue the voyage south east, crossing the shipping route along Africa and thus end up in Senegal - or take the sails down and drive southwest to Cape Verde. Since we did not really manage to steer the ship, I think it's best to get to land as quickly as possible. Therefore, we leave the ship sails and just drift with the wind and waves - the rate will be better and we are set to meet in the middle of Cape Verde. Something we do afterwards. It would prove to take three days.

Out here there is not a soul but us. We send PAN-PAN four times and did not hear a peep. Think hardly a Mayday would have helped either - if it had to be relevant. Triggered EPIRB would have initiated things, but it would have taken time. We have two rafts on board and all the rest were ready to leave the ship, there we arranged the 1st December.

Via satellite phone contacts we both ARC and our insurance Topsail and explains in-depth the boat either be controlled or stop, we do not like the idea of ​​running in between the Cape Verde Islands (mass dregs there), we prefer not to drive south and by Cape Verde and now we're heading towards the island of Sao Nicolaou which we will take about a day if we are not able to cross the pass - but in this case we are in the archipelago and / or in the worst case we run through and on down to Mid-Atlantic. So - we need help from a tug. Tomorrow morning we will be closest to the city of Mindelo where there will be a big tug, about 35 nm away.


Now a rejoicing that literally could have taken their toll on us. After countless mails and satelittelefonsamtaler with ARC and Topsail, as I recall it now with fatigue in mind that it took two days - finally getting the message from the top manager in Topsail, Robert Stephen that it is given the go-ahead to pay and thus book tug. Best we say and celebrate it with a common beer and guitar (...) in the cockpit while the wind and sea banks against us. So everything is turned on its head; tugboat company should have paid half in advance before they are sticking to havs.Vi have started negotiations with Topsail again, back and forth for hours through while we run closer and closer to Cape Verde. Downturn, the total when Topsail reports that they can not pay in advance: it is one thing or another that "the underwriters" or "the insurers" do not have enough information to make a decision. Or so the office is closed or they are out playing golf. I still do not know.

Via ARC (I think - not sure pt) we contact Mindelo Marina who is willing to act as our shipping agent who can then book the tug. It belongs with the rest of the story is that Cape Verde has SAR Rescue, but the boat (s) are too small to get shipwrecked at sea. Are we being told.

The problem then and there is the money. Since Topsail not pay anything I have to do it themselves. I emailed the credit card number and card details (including security code) to Mindelo Marina and say that I guarantee for payment. This says I also Topsail and say that I will send them the bill afterwards - they respond with 'It's so fantastic ..!'. It will be exciting to see what that means in practice.

My credit card is obviously a barrier that makes the company can not deduct the advance amount on the spot; Euro 6500 - only one thousand Euro. But that adds Johanna Mayer-Scheel in Mindelo Marina out of pocket and on our behalf. Quite strongly made. She said afterwards, "I could not let you crash with Sao Nicolaou."

So, end of the story is that the night until 6 December will tug at half one and retrieves us, when we located eight nautical miles from the first island with steep cliffs towards us - and 65 nm from Mindelo west. It is cumbersome to attach a tow in the dark of night in the high seas and at one point we are wrong off because one part of the trailing foot rooster will remain backward and around our keel. But Lotte resourceful to manage to loose fandenskapen and together manage Mickey, Lotte and I get pulled it back into place while Jan Ludvig keeps VHF contact with the tug. Fifteen hours later we dragged all the way to Mindelo where we are in strong winds but with many helping hands is now well anchored. We need to build a new rudder, get the boat on land and arrange for insurance etc etc. What we then do I have no idea. We have long since broken Arcen, it is probably the only one we know.


It is a paradox that the only thing that really helped us in countries Johanna, the thirty year old female German port boss in Mindelo on the island of Sao Vicente. Johanna is the only one who actually understood the gravity of the situation. Her father has otherwise built Cape Verde's only good marina. When she saw that we were heading towards one of the neighboring islands and came closer and closer, she walked resolutely to the airport's single tugboat company, let the 40,000 dollars on the table of their own money and ordered the tug away. This we had begged and asked our insurance Topsail and ARC to arrange for more than one day, which only ended in a hell lot of bureaucratic talk via satellite phone and mails back and forth. While the distance to Mindelo increased from 35 to 65 nm while we got closer to the mountain. To be switchboards and command center for their rescue in eight-meter sea side and stiff breeze is both surreal and totally pointless.

In retrospect, we would have managed a much better without clutter from ARC and Topsail. Then we had phoned home, secured a direct link to the ship agent and thus got booked tugboat in Mindelo - and spared one day at sea.

We have actually not received help from either ARC or Topsail - both parties are really just destroyed our situation where we actually were in distress. This will have consequences for both.

BUT a big salute to all aboard - thanks for the good cohesion and good seamanship.
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Old 09-12-2012, 09:21   #51
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Re: 3 ARC boats divert to Cape Verde with damage/injuries

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Originally Posted by foolishsailor View Post
Yes and you can then call the issuing bank to let them know that it is a legitimate authorisation and to free the funds. The boat in question had a sat phone.

If one had foresight one would also confirm the issuers policy about limits and fraud protection and only go with an issuer that allowed a near limit transaction, or work with the tow company and do multiple transactions. It is easy to find a issuer that will allow the full limit in a transaction. I am assuming that the tow company is a transaction and not a cash advance which is a different issue.
Do you know your banks policies & fraud protection?

In the heat of the moment at sea, would you think to call your banks help line? Maybe it was on the weekend or maybe you might call and they tell you that you are no. 20 in the queue..

BTW fraud systems are smart (hopefully) enough to block multiple transactions that attempt to circumvent the limits...
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Old 09-12-2012, 09:23   #52
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I'm sorry to be harsh but I read that already and johan a dug him out of a hole that he dug for himself.

1. Losing a rudder is not a deal killer when that close to shore.

2. Losing propulsion in rolly seas is resolvable

3. Not knowing your funding capacity is a rookie mistake. If you are cash or debit based you know what is in the bank, if you are credit based you speak with your bank and know your limits and international expectations.

This situation is wholly based on an inexperienced skipper who depended too much on outside assistance, and due to this dependence did not fully vet his own capacity to resolve the issue himself and thus ended up in a jam where the goodwill of another was required.

Not to "armchair this" but hey let's go for it.

1. If the fuel tank was so cntaminated and filters clogged by the rolling He could have resolved the fuel issues by creating a "day tank" by using two fuel or water jugs set on the cabin sole or near the engine with a line to the engine. Filling the jug not in use would be unpleasant, unless he had the fore thought to stick a fuel pump inline for this sort of situation.

2. If you cant use the rudder to steer and you cant make it straight then you need to remove it. The rudder issues could be resolved by removing the rudder. Either dive and tie it and the drop it or just drop the damn thing and buy another. Then create a steering solution. You have less than 400 miles, it's not an ocean.

Ok, armchair retracted.
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Old 09-12-2012, 09:24   #53
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Quote:
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Do you know your banks policies & fraud protection?

In the heat of the moment at sea, would you think to call your banks help line? Maybe it was on the weekend or maybe you might call and they tell you that you are no. 20 in the queue..

BTW fraud systems are smart (hopefully) enough to block multiple transactions that attempt to circumvent the limits...
Yes.

Yes. He was looking to pay for a tow. It wasn't like he was over a thousand miles away and looking to change his data limit on his sat phone.

24/7 coverage, the default for all major banks.

No, they won't. You call to authorise each. I have done it, and planned for it.
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Old 09-12-2012, 09:25   #54
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Re: 3 ARC boats divert to Cape Verde with damage/injuries

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but I have two high limit cards on my boat for exactly this type of event.
Same or different banks?
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Old 09-12-2012, 09:30   #55
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Same or different banks?
Good catch. Originally it was same bank, one for me and one for wife. We changed it then to be two seperate banks.
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Old 09-12-2012, 09:40   #56
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Re: 3 ARC boats divert to Cape Verde with damage/injuries

I always carry cards from 4 different countries Admittedly this is because I have kept accounts from various countries I have worked in.

I work as a computer consultant looking after a banks card system. I still live by the "cash is king" motto.

Sometimes through no fault of your own bank, a card might simply not work in a certain country or in ATM's or POS machines owned by just one bank in another country. **** happens
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Old 09-12-2012, 09:59   #57
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Re: 3 ARC boats divert to Cape Verde with damage/injuries

It's not a real big deal to call the bank in advance and tell them where you'll be traveling. This has avoided embarrassment for me.
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Old 09-12-2012, 10:02   #58
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Re: 3 ARC boats divert to Cape Verde with damage/injuries

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It's not a real big deal to call the bank in advance and tell them where you'll be traveling. This has avoided embarrassment for me.
Only works when you know the potential for a problem. Most people don't.
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Old 09-12-2012, 10:06   #59
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Re: 3 ARC boats divert to Cape Verde with damage/injuries

In my trips I'm certain I'll be spending money.
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Old 09-12-2012, 10:08   #60
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Re: 3 ARC boats divert to Cape Verde with damage/injuries

A bit OT, but this discussion of credit cards and credit limits I think is important for cruisers. One thing I have done is always had a trusted someone back home who is a co-signer on my bank accounts and can act in my place when/if I need financial assistance of some sort. It is much easier to contact this person who can walk into your local bank, go up the president of the bank (who he/she can know personally) and explain the situation, and get funds wired or transferred immediately. I realize that not everyone can do this for many reasons, but it can be useful. Some romanticize cutting all ties and sailing off across the Seven Seas without a care in the world, but there usually comes a time when those land connections are needed and can save the day.
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