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Old 18-11-2010, 16:55   #121
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Just guessing but based on slang from my British friends I would guess biccy = biscuits, aka crackers or cookies.
Spot on Skipmac.... give the man a biccy....
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Old 18-11-2010, 17:01   #122
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Sorry, nothing new. You might want to keep up with this site. Surely if there is news, it will be posted quickly. Cruising Rally Association | Event Tracker

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Old 19-11-2010, 18:09   #123
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Prayers

My prayers go out to Laura, family, & friends.
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Old 19-11-2010, 18:46   #124
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Spot on Skipmac.... give the man a biccy....
Ahhh.. don't remember that slang when I lived outside London. But then that whole period was a bit foggy.
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Old 20-11-2010, 06:30   #125
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It's the Captain and Crew's Fault!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am losing sleep and cannot help but thinking about Laura Zekoll! It doesn't matter if they lost their autopilot, if that even happened, it doesn't matter that they were seasick. What matters is that they all were together after the vessel grounded on a reef. They were in that liferaft Together! Mr and Mrs Ross are OK, Dave Shepard is OK, Laura is Not ok!!! What ever happened to the buddy system? Why didn't David look out for Laura? The captain protected his wife, yet Laura was left to fen for herself. NOT KOOL!
As a surfer, I have been in 10-15 foot wave faces. They are terrifiying in a wipeout but at least one has the solace of a surfboard attached to ones ankle and most importantly a buudy to look after you and make sure you surface after a wipeout! Just 2 yrs ago we took a liferaft in the surf, big surf, head high surf out in Hatteras, where I spend my summers. The waves either went under us or pushed us but didn't flip us. My point is, that the surf that night must have been horrendously huge and the wave and the liferaft centered, resulting in a flip and discharge of its passengers. At this point Ross looks after himself and his wife but why didn't he or Dave, the other able bodied crewmate look after Laura? Instead the 3 grabbed for the liferaft and rode it in when the next set wave white water (which would be about 8 dfeet high) into the shore, about a mile away, thus leaving Laura to fen for herself. Why is the wife OK and Laura not OK? Laura was younger stronger and a better swimmer. Yes, it is now time to point fingers!! It's been a week and many want answers and I am calling it as I see it, They left her!!! In politically correct terms " they got separated" . Cowards!!!!
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Old 20-11-2010, 06:48   #126
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Originally Posted by xxuxx View Post
I am losing sleep and cannot help but thinking about Laura Zekoll! It doesn't matter if they lost their autopilot, if that even happened, it doesn't matter that they were seasick. What matters is that they all were together after the vessel grounded on a reef. They were in that liferaft Together! Mr and Mrs Ross are OK, Dave Shepard is OK, Laura is Not ok!!! What ever happened to the buddy system? Why didn't David look out for Laura? The captain protected his wife, yet Laura was left to fen for herself. NOT KOOL!
As a surfer, I have been in 10-15 foot wave faces. They are terrifiying in a wipeout but at least one has the solace of a surfboard attached to ones ankle and most importantly a buudy to look after you and make sure you surface after a wipeout! Just 2 yrs ago we took a liferaft in the surf, big surf, head high surf out in Hatteras, where I spend my summers. The waves either went under us or pushed us but didn't flip us. My point is, that the surf that night must have been horrendously huge and the wave and the liferaft centered, resulting in a flip and discharge of its passengers. At this point Ross looks after himself and his wife but why didn't he or Dave, the other able bodied crewmate look after Laura? Instead the 3 grabbed for the liferaft and rode it in when the next set wave white water (which would be about 8 dfeet high) into the shore, about a mile away, thus leaving Laura to fen for herself. Why is the wife OK and Laura not OK? Laura was younger stronger and a better swimmer. Yes, it is now time to point fingers!! It's been a week and many want answers and I am calling it as I see it, They left her!!! In politically correct terms " they got separated" . Cowards!!!!

A strong phrase my man.....
Remember what went before.... and what they were in.... as a former RLSS lifeguard I've seen the results when mindless panic sets in and fear overwhelms so called normal behavior....
Its one thing to be in your voluteered 'controlled environment' in the surf where your fit and able...
But a whole different ballgame when your in their circumstances...

Lets wait for the Inquiry's results before handing out the 'White Feathers'...
Inexperience and Cowardice are 2 different animals...
How many folks practice hitting a reef in a 'RAGE'....
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Old 20-11-2010, 06:54   #127
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That's not a fair assumption. We have no idea what happened out there. It's possible that after the raft rolled and people surfaced, Laura was nowhere to be seen. Maybe they all paddled around shouting and searching for an hour. We just don't know. Wait till more facts come to light before condemning.
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Old 20-11-2010, 06:55   #128
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xxuxx, we don't need any flames from would-be surfers. Its one thing to be in head-high surf in the daytime with a board, and its another thing to be in survival conditions at night with nothing. When it gets really big, the body surfers in Santa Cruz swim out beyond the breakers and wait for the chopper, and they have fins on and can see the surf!
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Old 20-11-2010, 07:06   #129
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This is not a flame! and I am point a finger!

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Originally Posted by donradcliffe View Post
xxuxx, we don't need any flames from would-be surfers. Its one thing to be in head-high surf in the daytime with a board, and its another thing to be in survival conditions at night with nothing. When it gets really big, the body surfers in Santa Cruz swim out beyond the breakers and wait for the chopper, and they have fins on and can see the surf!
Flame, Slame, obviously you missed my point! It is not that I am a surfer but rather to illustrate that the surf conditions were sheer panic and sheer terror compounded by darkness!! But it is ironic that the Captain got out his feeble wife safe. What ever happened to: "The captain goes down with the ship", in order to save others? Yes I am pointing fingers! What ever happened to the buudy system? In Captain Ross's vessel, its every man/woman for himself!
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Old 20-11-2010, 07:12   #130
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That's not a fair assumption. We have no idea what happened out there ...
... We just don't know. Wait till more facts come to light before condemning.
INDEED!
Anything more would be mere MINDLESS speculation, at this point.
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Old 20-11-2010, 07:19   #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xxuxx View Post
I am losing sleep and cannot help but thinking about Laura Zekoll! It doesn't matter if they lost their autopilot, if that even happened, it doesn't matter that they were seasick. What matters is that they all were together after the vessel grounded on a reef. They were in that liferaft Together! Mr and Mrs Ross are OK, Dave Shepard is OK, Laura is Not ok!!! What ever happened to the buddy system? Why didn't David look out for Laura? The captain protected his wife, yet Laura was left to fen for herself. NOT KOOL!
As a surfer, I have been in 10-15 foot wave faces. They are terrifiying in a wipeout but at least one has the solace of a surfboard attached to ones ankle and most importantly a buudy to look after you and make sure you surface after a wipeout! Just 2 yrs ago we took a liferaft in the surf, big surf, head high surf out in Hatteras, where I spend my summers. The waves either went under us or pushed us but didn't flip us. My point is, that the surf that night must have been horrendously huge and the wave and the liferaft centered, resulting in a flip and discharge of its passengers. At this point Ross looks after himself and his wife but why didn't he or Dave, the other able bodied crewmate look after Laura? Instead the 3 grabbed for the liferaft and rode it in when the next set wave white water (which would be about 8 dfeet high) into the shore, about a mile away, thus leaving Laura to fen for herself. Why is the wife OK and Laura not OK? Laura was younger stronger and a better swimmer. Yes, it is now time to point fingers!! It's been a week and many want answers and I am calling it as I see it, They left her!!! In politically correct terms " they got separated" . Cowards!!!!
"There but for the grace of God, go I..."

You simply cannot imagine the force of the waves on that night. That ANY survived is simply and purely luck.

Having been involved in a wreck (fortunately in relatively benign conditions), having exhaustion and seasickness in part involved, I can very directly relate to what they were going through.

In pitch black conditions, with waves which, as they hit a cliff, could easily have been 30' or more in height (swells that night were 16', 14 second interval, very steep - and enhanced by 25-35 knot waves, which, since it had been blowing for a couple of days, would have been 8-10'), and once landed, push massive walls of water more than 100' in the air (see some pix in the link below, well after the rage conditions in which they found themselves, for a VERY small idea), the idea that anyone could "save" another is absurd.

IF they had all been tethered together, they could have stayed together. That two were washed over and recovered demands that they were tethered to the boat at the time, so they took appropriate safety measures. Being flipped out of a life raft is entirely possible. Once out, survival is strictly a matter of chance, if they weren't tethered to it.

Pointing fingers won't bring her back. You can be absolutely assured that the survivors are heartbroken that she didn't make it, but to say that the Captain protected his wife but ignored Laura, and/or that the other somehow neglected her is patently absurd. Further, unless you've spoken with the survivors, the conjecture that the other three grabbed the liferaft after being ejected is unfounded and strictly a guess.

There may well be lessons to be learned from this experience; if the survivors are extremely candid, after some time, they may share their story and reflect on how they got in that predicament. I did, after our wreck - search for a post in February '07 titled "I learned about sailing from that..." - a very candid assessment of the chain of fatigue-driven mistakes which led to our being on a flat rock. In the torrent of communications which passed between us and interested parties to our adventure (we were very visible on the internet due to our active search for our boat and continuing dialogues after purchase and 3' refit), there were many who profusely thanked us, due to the learning experience which would allow them to not make the same sort of mistakes as they set out.

Until such time, all the speculation in the world won't change things, nor be correct. Tragedies happen all the time in the marine world. It's difficult to accept, but you simply must. Any finger pointing will not be constructive, and you can be assured that the survivors are doing plenty of that to themselves.

BTDT, bought the T-Shirt, joined the club, was elected president. That we came through without a scratch, and our boat survived, was providential.

Yes, knowing what we do now, we'd have done things differently. However, I can very well understand their condition at the time of the wreck. Judgment and capability are severely compromised after what they went through before then...

My two cents, in part stimulated by all the armchair quarterbacks who were somewhat less charitable than most during our post-mortem of our experience.

Your **** stinks, too. But you're still alive to talk about it. Just out of curiosity, how did you find yourselves in a life raft off Hatteras? Was it night, against cliffs? Or, just big seas?

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Old 20-11-2010, 07:23   #132
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Putting together the pieces.....

With all due respect Gord, its kinda like CSI on the water. Does one really think the Captain is going to tell the truth if he Indeed left her to fen for herself? I think not! I believe the starting point is when they all were in the life raft together. It's just too ironic, the wife, more feeble than Laura made it to shore and Laura did not. I have the right to free speech and point my finger at whomever I want. I hope they feel my pointing finger. Sorry if this offends you.
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Old 20-11-2010, 07:28   #133
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He and his friends were out playing.... and I believe it was daytime with an offshore breeze..... thats when you get the big surf.... otherwise its storm surge... a much more deadly animal....
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Old 20-11-2010, 07:45   #134
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He and his friends were out playing.... and I believe it was daytime with an offshore breeze..... thats when you get the big surf.... otherwise its storm surge... a much more deadly animal....
First off, Boatman, its "she and her friends" secondly it's obvious you know nothing about surf. Offshore breezes don't beget big surf, rather they smooth the surf out and make the waves pretty, it also holds them up longer for a more hollow wave....it doesn't make them bigger. It is what every surfer looks for. Take a look at almost every resort brochure and one will find the photos are taken usually when there are offshore breezes....just makes everything smoother.
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Old 20-11-2010, 07:55   #135
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In Captain Ross's vessel, its every man/woman for himself!
There's probably a time in disasters when that will happen. Thats why its so important not to get to risk too much and get too close to the edge. Team work breaks down at vital moments.

Most of us are thinking sea sickness was probably a major factor in this. And what does sea sickness do? Break down team work.

Everyone has an inate trait to fend for themselves first. I don't think theres much of a surprise in this situation once they were in the liferaft and actually being upturned.
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