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Old 17-11-2010, 08:28   #76
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<For example there were two Gemini 105s, a Catalina 34, a Saga 43, an OutIsland 41, a Sabre 40, a Caliber 33, and other smaller and slower boats. Some of these boats are ocean capable but would not provide comfortable rides for the crew and these boats would trail behind the fleet by days.>

Elitism at its worst. We've done the 1500 in our Whitby 42, the Bermuda cup several times in the same boat. Even though we are slower we always believed we added something to the Rally, we won the Seipt Trophy on our first Bermuda run. The crews of slow boats enjoy camaraderie as much as the crews of fast expensive boats. We were perfectly comfortable and in the storied days when Hal Sutphen was alive, he gave credence to the older slower boats. I wouldn't take a Catalina offshore but it isn't in the same class as an OutIsland 41.
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Old 17-11-2010, 08:41   #77
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It really stuns me the way many cruisers think. It seems that nowadays if you don't have a multi million dollar 60 foot boat you shouldn't be out there. In the sixties when cruising started becoming popular thirty footers was what you saw. I remember meeting cruisers in the South Pacific in those days who came aboard the ship I was on to check out our volumes of sailing directions so that they could familiarize themselves with their next landfall. They all had what would now be termed small boats. Perhaps seamanship was a quality more prized then.
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Old 17-11-2010, 08:52   #78
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Agree with Hannah T's comment.
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Old 17-11-2010, 09:23   #79
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I did not mean at all to be elitist, I meant to sound realistic. People have rowed across the Atlantic, but would you? At the start, the projections were for up to 30 foot seas and winds of over thirty knots for most of the passage. Most cruisers sail for many years and never experience those conditions. I just worry about the mindset of a skipper with responsibility for family and crew who would leave port in a boat not designed for offshore sailing reguardless of his experience with that forcast. There is really no saftey in numbers and in my 7 trips on the 1500, I have rarely seen a rally boat after the first day.
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Old 17-11-2010, 09:26   #80
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....They all had what would now be termed small boats. Perhaps seamanship was a quality more prized then.
No 'perhaps' about it! Seamanship seems rapidly to be going the way of common sense.

Curious that it's threatened state pretty much coincides with the development of all those great communication, computation, and navigational gadgets! And with overdeveloped thumbs :-)

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Old 17-11-2010, 09:31   #81
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No 'perhaps' about it! Seamanship seems rapidly to be going the way of common sense.
And with overdeveloped thumbs :-)

Bill
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Old 17-11-2010, 09:36   #82
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boatman61 you got it going on!
I know Laura and if anyone is near that area, please look for her. If you need crew, I will come!
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Old 17-11-2010, 09:36   #83
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No 'perhaps' about it! Seamanship seems rapidly to be going the way of common sense.

Curious that it's threatened state pretty much coincides with the development of all those great communication, computation, and navigational gadgets! And with overdeveloped thumbs :-)

Bill
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Old 17-11-2010, 09:43   #84
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boatman61 you got it going on!
I know Laura and if anyone is near that area, please look for her. If you need crew, I will come!
No disrespect intended in this case.... I really hope the outcome is a happy one... tho' I fear that time is against this now...
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Old 17-11-2010, 10:05   #85
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At the start, the projections were for up to 30 foot seas and winds of over thirty knots for most of the passage
and yet the caliber 33 is a couple of days out of tortola as we speak
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Old 17-11-2010, 10:17   #86
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Hannah, Your Whitby is a full keel high displacement boat as is the OutIsland 41.

I wouldn't personally choose to be in 20 foot seas and high winds in the lighter Catalina or Caliber. But I would respect anyone who does it.
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Old 17-11-2010, 10:22   #87
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Hannah, Your Whitby is a full keel high displacement boat as is the OutIsland 41.

I wouldn't personally choose to be in 20 foot seas and high winds in the lighter Catalina or Caliber. But I would respect anyone who does it.
All I can say is I'm glad I don't get "mal di mare".
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Old 17-11-2010, 10:30   #88
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One thing that it seems the rally does not adequately communicate to the newer cruisers is that fatigue and seasickness are integral parts of passage making, especially on first passages and most especially on bouncy/breezy first passages.

I still, after some years of passage making, usually get seasick the first three or so nights of a passage; and I am usually quite fatigued the 2nd to 5th day.

Its not talked about a lot, but you just need to plan for fatigue and seasickness. If it gets too bad, so you feel you might be making bad decisions or not have any reserve to handle any developing problems, then you simply need to stop/heave-to/forereach and get everyone rested and showered and feeling fresher. There is some peer pressure in these rallys to keep going and keep the speed up but sometimes it just simply much better to stop the boat and take a day off. This is usually a better choice that running into shore while fatigued.
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Old 17-11-2010, 10:33   #89
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All I can say is I'm glad I don't get "mal di mare".
You can never say you "don't" get it. You can only say I haven't gotten it yet. If you haven't, you probably will.
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Old 17-11-2010, 10:36   #90
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Decisions - Speculations

I am sitting here trying to come to grips with this. It is a very sad day.
Someone in our community has been threatened and people have been hurt.
I am not just talking about the Captain and Crew of Rule62 but the organizers of the 1500, the family and friends of Laura.

I cant imagine what Richard Ross is going through right now, His wife, or the other crew, Steve Black, or anybody involved in this venture.

Is it correct to say that they should have gone another way, that maybe boats should or shouldn't have gone, or why are some boats out there now, that is all we can do now.... speculate.

We are thinking of going on the Caribbean 1500 next year, we participated in the Atlantic cup as crew for friends last year, and went to the offshore course in Norfolk this fall. I remember it was said time and time again, prepare, prepare, prepare, make your boat comfortable and go.

I see the departure was delayed for a week already, 70 boats on the line, 30knot winds 30 foot seas for days, but 70 boats were going so why cant we? That decision must have been difficult. Can you imaging 70 boats willing to go but you think it might be too rough for you? Safety in numbers....... but look at the consequences. Should we go in our Bendy toy? in the right weather why not?

To sit back and speculate is easy, but those moments in shear terror and then grief, it would have been a completely different outcome if they had made it......we wouldn't be speculating right now.

Look at the Catalina 34, or the caliber 33 or some of the 36's they are all still maintaining way on the finish, but now since this will it be any easier for us to next year?

All I can say is that decision is going to be difficult. We have to remember the reasons we do this and the factors involved.

And ultimately pray for those involved in this unfortunate accident.

Mark
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