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Old 26-11-2010, 09:22   #211
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Safety check at Carib 1500 - strobes and whistles

In the safety checklist for the Carib 1500, all (Type I) lifejackets should be equipped with a strobe and a whistle. Considering Rule 62 went through the checklist, I can only assume that all lifejackets were equipped with a strobe. We may have to consider the amount of spray generated by the waves crashing in a "rage" to assess if the strobe would be visible. In addition, some strobes are "automatic" and others are manual. I purchased some automatic strobes that were defective out of the pack. Worth testing the equipment before disaster strikes. A manual one will start if you are able to activate it... As usual no silver bullet is available.
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Old 26-11-2010, 09:44   #212
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During a night of sheer terror, one item could have possibly saved Laura. A strobe tied to her life jacket. She had no strobe so she could not be seen. Although we cannot bring back this beatiful person, we can learn from her passing. Never, ever enter a Bahamian cut at night during a rage. Always wear a strobe, whistles don't do much in 10+ crashing surf in the impact zone. If you are in a liferaft, and are in the impact zone of the surf, tie yourself on to the life raft so you can't be separated from the liferaft and let the 8 foot high white water bring you to safety. These are some items that are not taught in STCW '95 training that should be included. The art of the liferaft.
Anything else?....
Having taken 3 commercial Survival at Sea courses I can tell you one thing for sure... in those conditions there's no way you would have time to 'tie yourself to a life-raft'... furthermore its not a recommended course to follow either.
You seem of the opinion that the life-raft is an infallible safety device when in fact it is a relatively fragile, unstable floating shelter in serious/severe conditions... easily punctured/ripped/overturned...
The last thing one needs is to be lashed to a bundle of semi deflated garbage thats liable to be dumped on top of you by the sea ... as to a strobe light.. a good idea that should be one all life jackets.. though in those conditions I doubt it would have been visible for more than seconds at a time.. also the other three had their hands full trying to survive and no one else was out there to assist..
Its tragic... but, one needs to always bear in mind... some tragedies are inevitable in the environment we choose to play in..
Yes some folks DO need to learn about life-rafts in real situations
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Old 26-11-2010, 09:52   #213
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Thanks for your viewpoint Boatman, all good points...

The quote in your signature is especially poignant to me in light of this thread...

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A simple test to see if your Mission on Earth is over.. if your still alive.. it isn't... Argue for your limitations, and sure enough they're yours... SKYPE: Phil.Jahans
Laura sounds like she was the kind of woman who fulfilled her Mission on Earth very quickly from the stories I have heard...
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Old 26-11-2010, 10:29   #214
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Thanks for your viewpoint Boatman, all good points...

The quote in your signature is especially poignant to me in light of this thread...



Laura sounds like she was the kind of woman who fulfilled her Mission on Earth very quickly from the stories I have heard...
I see my post could be misconstrued...

Basically, what I am trying to say, is that it sounds like from other sites that she was an incredible woman who lived with integrity and was in service to her fellow men and women...that she was very clear in regards to her "Mission on Earth", and that she had fulfilled said Mission many times over...
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Old 26-11-2010, 12:34   #215
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Originally Posted by pierre0121 View Post
In the safety checklist for the Carib 1500, all (Type I) lifejackets should be equipped with a strobe and a whistle. Considering Rule 62 went through the checklist, I can only assume that all lifejackets were equipped with a strobe. We may have to consider the amount of spray generated by the waves crashing in a "rage" to assess if the strobe would be visible. In addition, some strobes are "automatic" and others are manual. I purchased some automatic strobes that were defective out of the pack. Worth testing the equipment before disaster strikes. A manual one will start if you are able to activate it... As usual no silver bullet is available.
If someone was 10 foot away wearing a life jacket and had a xmas tree on their head wouldn't automatically mean others could save them. Everyone has physical limits of their endurance and when water & weather involved with things going wrong that limit can be reached surprisingly quickly. You are not always able to physically do the things you would like to do.
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Old 26-11-2010, 15:43   #216
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We are stuck with speculation at this point in time since no more details are available and it runs the risk of being off topic. In the documented extreme conditions of the event the sea dynamics were such that there could be no assured course of actions once then critical events unfolded. There are no additional details of how events unfolded or actions taken by the crew that either led to or followed the tragedy. Suggestion of alternative actions at this is total speculation and are considered OFF TOPIC.

We have no information on the details from the crew that did make it to safety. Endless speculation is not a means to gain experience from this tragedy. Additional waiting and time is required for more confirmed details.

Generic discussions of other issues that can be discussed outside this context would be better resumed in another thread with a specific title concerning the topic. Such topics are encouraged out side the context here.

Tacking additional unrelated discussions to this thread serves no purpose to the point about this tragedy. This thread already has a very serious topic and title and it is expected that members will stay on topic inside all the CF threads or start a new one. Any registered member can start new threads on most any sailing topic. We always need more topics.

We don't want this thread drifting.
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Old 26-11-2010, 16:38   #217
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Originally Posted by Pblais View Post
We are stuck with speculation at this point in time since no more details are available and it runs the risk of being off topic. In the documented extreme conditions of the event the sea dynamics were such that there could be no assured course of actions once then critical events unfolded. There are no additional details of how events unfolded or actions taken by the crew that either led to or followed the tragedy. Suggestion of alternative actions at this is total speculation and are considered OFF TOPIC.

We have no information on the details from the crew that did make it to safety. Endless speculation is not a means to gain experience from this tragedy. Additional waiting and time is required for more confirmed details.

Generic discussions of other issues that can be discussed outside this context would be better resumed in another thread with a specific title concerning the topic. Such topics are encouraged out side the context here.

Tacking additional unrelated discussions to this thread serves no purpose to the point about this tragedy. This thread already has a very serious topic and title and it is expected that members will stay on topic inside all the CF threads or start a new one. Any registered member can start new threads on most any sailing topic. We always need more topics.

We don't want this thread drifting.
Sorry Boss.... but some are looking for things/people to blame.. its a gut response to personal fears/egos... whatever..
I feel in this case no one was to blame as such.... it was just a tragic sequence of events that happens to seafarers from time to time...
It sucks... Big time... but its a life we choose and we all must be prepared to accept that things like this can and do happen... maybe one day to me.
The lady knew what she was letting herself in for... a former biker.. a sailor.. like me she looked for the 'Buzz'...
So lets just celebrate her life and what she did.. the joy, laughter and yes.. tears... instead of nitpicking the details and trying to make out how clever we are...
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Old 26-11-2010, 16:54   #218
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A close friend of mine was recently ocean kayaking (highly experienced) and came ashore in the smallest surf you could imagine. Somehow he got caught in it, rolled over, came out of the kayak, and was beat silly until someone on the beach gave help.
Life happens....
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Old 26-11-2010, 17:07   #219
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Quote:
Sorry Boss.... but some are looking for things/people to blame.. its a gut response to personal fears/egos... whatever..
OK I agree with you. It's my only point. I think you have tried to keep that as part of the discussion in your own personal posts but we just can't conduct that in THIS thread.

We ain't going there and everyone is warned. Go someplace else if that is what you need to do. A new thread here inside CF is appropriate! We have discussed most of the disasters in the past 7 years. They all have severe personal tragedy and deserve that respect and this thread starts at the beginning on it's own. The persons and family involved can have at least that much.

I don't want real information that may be revealed to get lost in off topic discussion. I see a lot of new threads that could come from this event and look forward to seeing those that want to talk about practices for the future to do so with the idea that this event started that discussion. It's the better tribute.

We don't want to close this thread and I would prefer not to be forced to "clean it up". We hope more real information can be added so down the road someone could follow it from the 1st post to the last and learn how information is reveled in these serious matters.
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Old 26-11-2010, 17:39   #220
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Thanks, Paul.
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Old 26-11-2010, 17:46   #221
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Hello Cruisers,

Anyone besides Sunsets going on this rally from Hampton VA to the BVIs? If so, let's use this forum to keep in touch and share good ideas and relevent news with each other.

What do you think?
Given that the original subject was the rally and all things related (as above) and not simply the sinking I don't quite see how the thread has wandered off that original topic. I recall there being a seperate thread specific to the sinking / condolences.


Maybe easier all around if the thread was locked and folk sent posts by PM for Moderator approval. or to save everyone hassle the Mods could simply write the posts saying what the "facts" are. and what they mean.
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Old 26-11-2010, 17:53   #222
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Not a bad idea, David :-)

Problem is, the facts are few and far between. I think the great frustration I and others feel is due to the fact that there is virtually NO AUTHORITATIVE INFORMATION.

Two weeks after the event we know almost nothing.

The silence from those closest to the event is deafening.

I'd think the family's grief can only be deepened by the near total absence of real information.

Bill
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Old 26-11-2010, 17:54   #223
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...
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Old 26-11-2010, 17:55   #224
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Not a bad idea, David :-)

Problem is, the facts are few and far between. I think the great frustration I and others feel is due to the fact that there is virtually NO AUTHORITATIVE INFORMATION.

Two weeks after the event we know almost nothing.

The silence from those closest to the event is deafening.

I'd think the family's grief can only be deepened by the near total absence of real information.

Bill
Yeah, it seems the lawyers are controlling the info or lack thereof.
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Old 26-11-2010, 17:56   #225
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I don't believe this.
I'm outta here.
You and your clique have a nice holiday season and I hope you are able to figure
out what everybody did wrong so you can learn from it but the truth is, you're all wearing blinders.
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