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Old 20-11-2010, 19:59   #151
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Xxuxx, offshore winds actually stand waves up, in essence making them larger. And I have never found solace while being out in big waves knowing I have a large piece of hard fiberglass attached to my leg, that could produce brain damage! Maybe that's why the pros don't use leashes in large surf.
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Old 20-11-2010, 20:04   #152
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Over the past 7 1/2 years I've been here CF has discussed many sea disasters of all proportion as they unfolded. Some involved the loss of life and many the loss of a vessel. For the most part the information starts out pretty thin and eventually starts to trickle in. In between the discussion can bring similar experiences and techniques to the forefront of the discussion as a means to compare and perhaps sharpen ideas and pass on information. It is for those reasons we allow those discussions here. We are not a public courtroom nor are we seeking to be one.

What has been rare is the speculation generated here has caused harm to those involved indirectly by way of family members and close friends. This can come from the rash thoughtless type of posts that come from wild speculation and critical personal comments. People desperate for details will find their way here to seek anything they can find. They read closely the posts here to learn more.

Thinking what you like is your freedom but there is no free speech at CF! We are not the government and this is a private venue. All members will conduct themselves in a manner that exhibits the better nature of sailors and post ideas and comments meant to enrich the sailing experience for one and all be thy big or small or even just a question that might lead to more answers. Asking simple questions to find answers is what we do the most of here and is appropiriate.

We all seek true answers to many questions and we welcome sharing in a friendly environment. It's why sailors come here and why they come back.

If you have a second agenda we can easily with the click of a mouse see that you leave without return and with no wake left behind. I don't want to have to respond to a private email from a family member from a tragic accident about the thoughtless comments made by one our members. I've had to do it before and I mean to prevent it.

Information is always too slow flowing from far away places. Some may be in error and much of it uncertain. In the mean time there can be much constructive discussion about the aspects of history, geography, weather, storm tactics, practices, and planning. As new accurate information arrives it will shed more details that can unfold even more discussion that will be very productive.

I urge all to seek out details and post information and in between conduct discussions with the seriousness of this situation always in mind for those involved and the family and friends that are worried about them. Official investigation results may not follow for quite some time after.

This is clearly a time where CF members can and typically do show the real meaning of being helpful to a fellow sailor. There are many posts already that prove the collective abilities we have here.
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Old 20-11-2010, 20:31   #153
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Thank you Pblais, I know everybody will be very interested to,eventually, maybe,hear a first hand account of how this tragedy unfolded.
I must however comment that the remarks of xxuxx have been the most hurtful and irrisponsible that I have ever read on CF. Bruce.
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Old 20-11-2010, 20:37   #154
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I have a question which has come from some of the speculation here; if I'm new to an area, how do I know when that area is passable or not?
Thank-you-
Kenny
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Old 20-11-2010, 20:43   #155
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I have a question which has come from some of the speculation here; if I'm new to an area, how do I know when that area is passable or not?
Thank-you-
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If you can read a chart... you will/should... else you should not be out there..
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Old 20-11-2010, 20:48   #156
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If anyone has any information for Lyn please direct details to Lyn's' private CF mail so you can relay details such as contact information. It will make it easier and more confidential to share information you may have this way.

You can do this by LEFT clicking the underlined member name (above the stars) in the upper left corner of the post and send Lyn a "private message". You can send a phone number or personal email address this way and be assured it's not sent all over the Internet and an alert by default is sent out.
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Old 20-11-2010, 20:49   #157
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Depending on the weather and everything, it's all spelled out on the charts?
Thanks-

P.S. What tune are you whistling?
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Old 20-11-2010, 21:19   #158
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I've been following this thread for a while. I'm deeply sorry for the loss of Laura and Rule 62 and the experience of the captain/crew, appalled by xxuxx's comments (and my wife's response is much, much stronger than "appalled"), and interested in the "lessons learned/shared experiences" commentary.

One question my wife and I were discussing yesterday, and that I don't believe I've seen posted/suggested in this thread, is the idea that in an emergency with the boat you stay with the boat until it slips under the water. I can't imagine the terror bouncing over reefs in huge breaking seas (I've sailed in the North Bar Channel, and in/out the Little Harbour channel a couple of times, and anchored a bit behind Lynyard, and even dinghied on the outside of Lynyard so I do know the area a little bit), but aren't you better off in a bit plastic boat than a little rubber raft in those conditions, at least until it breaks apart? We have discussed over and over how "you never leave the boat until it is sinking, and you don't cut the liferaft free until the big boat really sinks below the waves". Very few of us (not including me) can understand what it must be like to actually have to make that decision (leave or stay), but my thinking (way out of harm's way, of course) is that my family never, never leaves the boat until it is going under. Its made to float, and made strong, and will likely survive better a bashing over a reef on the way to shore than my body will.

Thoughts?

And one reply, to Kenny (sorry, I couldn't resist) - as far as how one knows whether an area is passable or not when one is new to the area, if one doesn't know -absolutely certainly know - then one doesn't close with the shore. Period. It's generally not the deep water and big seas that will cause your boat harm, its the sharp hard parts around the edges of the water that will. Personally, we used to have a rule that we never - never - made landfall in the dark. We slowly changed that - we come in after dark in our home port in Kemah, TX, while on a break from cruising; we came in the channel at Beaufort, NC after dark, in benign conditions at 11 pm after a good, short passage from Charleston, SC; we even motored into the Racoon Cay/Johnson Cay area of the Jumentos from offshore around 11 pm, but in flat seas, no wind, and after having spent lots of time in the area the previous year, so we felt we knew the area well, plus we know our electronic charts were spot-on. Even then we dropped the hook in deeper water, and in the morning moved into the bay by Nairn Cay.

Another thing my crew discusses - occasionally - boys included - is that sailing offshore can be dangerous, and we could even die. But they also know we could die driving in Houston traffic, or we could have died on more than one tiny charter airplane ride (that the kids, much younger, thought was a thrilling roller-coaster ride), etc.

Our prayers are with the family and friends of Laura and and the rest of the crew of Rule 62.

Dave
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Old 20-11-2010, 21:25   #159
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I've always said I'll never leave my boat untill I'm standing on the 'Button' and the waters up to my knees.... in reality if the **** hits the fan.... I have not got a clue......
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Old 20-11-2010, 21:31   #160
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Dave: well said.
-M
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Old 20-11-2010, 21:53   #161
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Lying in bed, I forgot the pithy little saying I heard a few years ago that captures what I took so many words to say above - "your boat will scare you to death before it kills you".
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Old 21-11-2010, 05:58   #162
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SEARCH PARTY FORMING FOR LAURA ZEEKOL IN THE ABACOS

SEARCH PARTY FORMING FOR LAURA ZEEKOL IN THE ABACOS

Can anyone on this site please post to other applicable forums, as a new user I am blocked out from posting and this is time sensitive. Your help is much appreciated!!

A search party is forming to find Laura Zekoll who was lost at Lynyard Cay last week-end during the grounding of Rule 62.
If you know of anyone who is willing to help, please find Meredith Jordanat The Conch Inn.
Anyone willing to help this family and the sailing friends Laura Zeekol would be much appreciated.
You can also reach me at lynmidas@aol.com to relay any information.

Thank you so much to so many of you who have helped. Pierre, of sv Echappee, your info is invaluable - we hope to get on Pattie Toler's Cruisers Net 8:15am broadcast this morning. Still trying to reach her by phone, but no one is answering
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Old 21-11-2010, 08:42   #163
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SEARCH PARTY FORMING FOR LAURA ZEEKOL IN THE ABACOS

Can anyone on this site please post to other applicable forums, as a new user I am blocked out from posting and this is time sensitive. Your help is much appreciated!!

A search party is forming to find Laura Zekoll who was lost at Lynyard Cay last week-end during the grounding of Rule 62.
If you know of anyone who is willing to help, please find Meredith Jordanat The Conch Inn.
Anyone willing to help this family and the sailing friends Laura Zeekol would be much appreciated.
You can also reach me at lynmidas@aol.com to relay any information.

Thank you so much to so many of you who have helped. Pierre, of sv Echappee, your info is invaluable - we hope to get on Pattie Toler's Cruisers Net 8:15am broadcast this morning. Still trying to reach her by phone, but no one is answering
Patti is not in the Bahamas right now. Your best bet for info and help is to post here:
Forum - Abaco's Community Message Board
You can also listen to the Marsh Harbour cruisers net here:
http://www.barometerbob.org/
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Old 21-11-2010, 08:50   #164
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Patti is not in the Bahamas right now. Your best bet for info and help is to post here:
Forum - Abaco's Community Message Board
That's true - she's enjoying her vacation -, but others are taking up the slack. E.g., I was net control for several weeks while I was there - and other volunteers share the load when there's nobody able to continue for an extended period - the net continues uninterrupted, year-round, for over 20 years.

If you got to barometerbob.org, and click through the links shown, you can listen to today's, or up to 3 days ago's broadcasts, as well as "live" for any traffic during the day, including the actual net.

It's delayed by a couple of minutes from "live" but there's a very active net every morning beginning at 8:15...

L8R

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Old 21-11-2010, 09:00   #165
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