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Old 11-01-2011, 19:22   #1
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$100K in Drugs Found on Cruise Ship

Here's the story.

$100K in drugs found on cruise ship - Travel - Cruise Travel - msnbc.com

Here's the question. If a crew on a forum members boat hid a fraction of that amount, the authorities would not be very understanding of the owners ignorance. The boat would be seized. Is it reasonable that the cruise line owners should get a more tolerant response?
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Old 11-01-2011, 19:54   #2
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A reasonable person would expect that the owner of a 84,500-ton ship with thousands of compartments would have less direct knowledge compared to a 10-ton boat with just a few compartments. Yeah, seize the boat, and you'll put 8400 people out of work and subject the owner's to many millions of dollars of cost and wreck thousands of people's voyages/vacations.
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Old 11-01-2011, 20:25   #3
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I think Marks got a cruise coming up... wonder if its the same ship....
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Old 11-01-2011, 20:31   #4
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it also looks like it was a sting op. So the owners knew about it before hand and went along with it.
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Old 11-01-2011, 20:35   #5
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Markpierce,

I agree 100%.

But I don't think that because we don't have the stats with 1,000-tons, 3,000 compartments or 5,000 crew members with however many additional support crew that is put out of work should mean that we might lose our home because a crewmember was really good at being bad. The numbers don't make it fair/reasonable. It’s OK to ruin an owner’s life, but not thousands of people's voyages/vacations?

That didn’t come out right at all. I don’t want to ruin anybody’s vacation, or job or anything else. I am in fact in favor of ZERO tolerance. But my being in favor of it does not make me immune to someone else’s stupidity.

I realize I'm putting out a question that can't be easily answered. And it may seem like I'm playing philosopher here. But we are vulnerable. I’ve only met one person who came close to losing her boat, despite her best efforts to make sure the crew was following the rules. That was enough to tell me that you can’t get far enough away from being vulnerable when the laws, not your actions, make you a criminal.

And while we are talking about tolerance here, I hope nobody tries any thread drift towards “make drugs legal and the problem is solved”. My tolerance does not bend that far.” My boat, my rules, no drugs and the problem is solved”. End of story… NOT. Someone else braking my rules and the problem can be devastating.

The idea that it might have been a sting operation does not change things. Does that mean the cruise line gets to keep their ship where otherwise they would have lost it? uh... not in the equasion.
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Old 11-01-2011, 20:40   #6
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I think Marks got a cruise coming up... wonder if its the same ship....
No, I dislike Royal Caribbean as well as Carnival cruise lines. Once was enough on both.
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Old 11-01-2011, 20:42   #7
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Minggat, unfortunately most owners of small boats can't afford an army of lawyers, and law enforcement folk like easy "targets."
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Old 11-01-2011, 20:47   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markpierce View Post
Minggat, unfortunately most owners of small boats can't afford an army of lawyers, and law enforcement folk like easy "targets."
And important people are shareholders.... profits my boy.... profits... if it was a merchant vessel I think things would be a tad different,
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Old 11-01-2011, 21:47   #9
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Ships don't cause crimes, people do. This crazy policy of seizing property before the accused has been proven guilty must stop.
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Old 11-01-2011, 21:57   #10
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Ships don't cause crimes, people do. This crazy policy of seizing property before the accused has been proven guilty must stop.
OK, where does the ... stopping... start?

Where it might be reasonable that a boat that is smuggeling drugs for resale should be seized (quantity), whereas a boat owner who's crewmember is the wrongdoer should be .... what's that phrase? Innocent until proven guilty?

I dunno.

But the bigger question. Is there now any protection at all for the innocent owner ? Have we really given up our rights because we documented our boats or because they are on the waterways?
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Old 11-01-2011, 22:12   #11
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Difference between "public" and "private" transportation. A cruise ship, commercial airline flight or public bus, the offending individual should be liable. A private car, yacht or RV/Bus the owner/operator is liable.
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Old 11-01-2011, 22:26   #12
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Difference between "public" and "private" transportation. A cruise ship, commercial airline flight or public bus, the offending individual should be liable. A private car, yacht or RV/Bus the owner/operator is liable.
That's probably about where wea are now.

So you, as a private owner are willing to be liable? I'm kinda hopiing that's not how you meant that to come out. Nice line of demarkation though. I'm Ok with being under more scrutiny, but not losing my boat and not even found guilty!!

If I had no idea of the drugs existance, I'd kinda like to be found innocent, and me and my property are free to go.

The reaction to someone stepping out of line is, the line gets straighter and thinner. So NOT stepping out of line gets harder and harder. While the original ... line stepper.. pays HIS debt to society with a hand slap, he has cost me my boat.
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Old 11-01-2011, 22:55   #13
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People say if someone is found to have drugs in the vehicle they are operating, the vehicle should be impounded. If you then add, what if it is your vehicle they are operating... Then all of a sudden, it is not fair that they should impound their vehicle.
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Old 11-01-2011, 23:03   #14
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And important people are shareholders.... profits my boy.... profits... if it was a merchant vessel I think things would be a tad different,
That's right. Gotta fund those pensions and 401(k)s and provide an incentive for people to save to accumulate capital and create jobs.

Wages, wages, and salaries too.

Without profits, salaries, wages, and other income to tax, as well as wealth confiscation, there's no money for the common defense or to transfer wealth to others.
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Old 12-01-2011, 06:50   #15
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The Cruise Ship (and business) would be seized if the authorities thought (could prove?) that the owners were using as a front for a drug smuggling operation.

I don't think the Cruise Ship owners are getting a free pass, more that there first line of defence is obvious - commercial operation without 100% control over the actions of passengers and crew. And probably supported by a history of co-operation with law-enforcement as well as accepted practices to combat smuggling by any Crew and / or Passengers (and for that I would assume some degree of spot checking of crew and documented policies and procedures to allow others to report suspicions, of both crew and passengers)..........at the end of the day, "looking like you give a sh#t" is the new "doing something"

And also the odds that the Cruise Ship Owners would have bigger lawyers than Joe Soap so Law Enforcement less keen to get involved in litigation unless they have a slam dunk.

I would also argue that a simple recreational boat owner / skipper does in practice have a greater degree of control over both what crew or passengers are allowed to come onboard and over what they do when onboard.

Not to say that the skipper will use this ability - but that is his choice.



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