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Old 29-11-2006, 15:01   #1
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Sailing ownership programs

Has anyone delt with sailtime or any of the charter programs ?

I'm looking into ways to own and offset the cost while creating a tax shelter. I understand some of these programs will allow tax incentives while putting you in a new boat every few years and potentially generating income.
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Old 30-11-2006, 08:07   #2
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Firstly - you have bought a Depreciating Asset.
Secondly - Do you really want other people of varying abilities and attitudes such as "its only a rental" using Your Boat?
Thirdly - The larger Companies (Moorings/Sunsail etc) will not allow you to customise your own boat, and will require a "charter version" which is not necessarily what you want for personal cruising, thus limiting your choice of boat dramatically.
Fourthly - well - I could go on.

There are Up sides however.
1. You can buy a boat that you probably could not have afforded otherwise.
2. With the larger companies who have bases all around the world, you can sail the same model as the one you have bought in just about every known cruising ground of the world.


I would say: Look on it as "heavily subsidised sailing" - if you make any money out of it, consider yourself lucky!!

I've been in the charter industry for 20 years (now, only peripherally, thank goodness) and have seen Happy Owners, Ecstatic Owners, and also unfortunately, Very Unhappy Owners and those who have ended up completely upside down on the boat loan with a boat that they really dont want to cruise in, but cant sell to recoup their costs.

Tony

PS - an excellent source of good unbiased info on the pros and cons can be found on www.sailonline.com
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Old 30-11-2006, 15:26   #3
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Tony outlines it pretty well.

They use the boat while you hold the loan. At some point they no longer want / can charter the boat beacuse they can get newer boats that peole want to charter more than yours. Then it becomes all yours after a lot of use. If you get close to making money the boat you end up with is not in very decent condition.

It might work OK if you never wanted to use your own boat that much but instead used your time to sail in many other places around the world on other peoples boats.
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Old 09-12-2006, 08:10   #4
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We presently own a Mooorings 494. We entered the program in 2004 and so far it is working out great for us. We put down 25% and the mortgage gets paid plus about 7% above the payment due to the bank. We get to use our boat 4 weeks a year in the BVI and a a minimum of an additional 6 weeks anywhere there is a Mooring Base. There are daily fees to cover fuel, water, ice, linens. The amount varies with the size of the boat and type of boat, which is much less than you could charter anywhere.

It is set up as an S Corp so you get tax advantages from the charters. We will be keeping this boat and bring it up to CT., where we live, when the 5 year contract is up. We may go back into the program and get a Cat and leave it in the BVI after we leave the program.

It is true that it is a depreciating asset; but you have that with any boat. Paying off 5 years of the mortgage is not too bad; since they have to maintain the vessel in good shape so that it will be able to be chartered. They don't want to loose their clients. The Moorings do maintain their fleet in the BVI to a like new condtion. The last time we were there I complained about the heads leaking water back into the bowl. I think it was the joker valve. It was easier for them to replace the entire unit; and they did, all four of them. It is true that the squeeky wheel gets the grease; and by now they know me by name. The base manager and the director of the Virgin Islands both know me.

When the boat leaves the program you have an option to keep it for a few years in their Footloose program for chartering and get additional payments or you can keep the boat and continue to pay off the mortgage, or trade it back into the program for the same size boat or larger for the next 5 years.

As far as how you want your boat set up, there are a few things which you would like to add to it ; but nothing that would stop you from buying it. The only thing that I would have liked on the boat would have been a generator. When I do bring it home I will have a generator installed; one that I will chooce.

From what I have heard and seen, recently, that more of the owners are happy with their situation than not. In addition I have been sailing for 30+ years and will be very happy with my Moorings boat to sail anywhere in the world, and I have.
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Old 11-12-2006, 17:45   #5
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Add'l questions

Sonny: What is the length of the note on the 494? Do you have options there or is a std?
Do you have restrictions of when You can use your boat or others = high season vs other times?
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Old 12-12-2006, 09:26   #6
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I have a 15 year mortgage; you probably could get a 20yr. we chose 15. We put down 15% which is pretty standard with the credit companies.
The Moorings give you a choice of high and low seasons. We choose to go on the low season just before the high season begins or ends. This suits us because we don't have a problem getting a reciprical boat and do not have to book very far in advance. We also get more weeks with the low season usage. After the first 14 days of a charter the balance is cost free. Some people take a month on their own vessel and just pay for the first 14 days of the month for fuel, water, ice and linens.

The only is restrictions is if there is a boat available for you at the time of your charter. We have the 494 and we get either a 49' or larger. Because we have this size vessel we have been able to use a 45' Cat in locations where they do not have this size vessel.

When and if you are ready to speak to someone at The Moorings we have met a wonderful women in the Yacht Ownership Program inTortola, BVI. We did not buy from her because we only met her when we went into the program in Tortola. She took care of us as if we purchased the boat from her. The next boat we will purchase will be through her.
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Old 20-12-2006, 09:49   #7
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Good Info

Sonny:
Thanks for the info.
Mortgage - Did you seek out financing or used Moorings sources?

Location - Did you negotiate where your 494 is based? or did they choose.

You seem very happy with arrangement..........What are the top three reasons it's working for You.
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Old 20-12-2006, 15:44   #8
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[quote=Sonny]We get to use our boat 4 weeks a year in the BVI and a a minimum of an additional 6 weeks anywhere there is a Mooring Base. quote]

Minimum ... you mean you HAVE to sail an extra six weeks or more?

Sounds good to me.


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Old 21-12-2006, 16:42   #9
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One More

Sonny:
Did Moorings give You a guaranteed buy-out figure for the boat after the charter contract expires in case You do not want to keep it? Opinion on that too?
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Old 30-12-2006, 08:51   #10
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To answer a few questions about The Moorings:

We did seek out the financing; but they were dragging their tails and could not come up with the money when we need it. The Moorings gave us the name of a lending agency, Essex Credit, Bill Kramer. He did it in a very short period of time since the other guy couldn't come through. Phone #1-866-377-3948 ext.7011. Same deal as the other guy so there were no additional charges or kick backs that I know of. I also had the boat incorporated no additional charge; I am not sure if itwas through Essex of The Moorings.

We had a choice of locations and since we never had been to the USVI or BVI we chose the Tortola Base, in the BVI.

It works for us because we are retired and can make arrangements on the off season. We book the trips for either the 2 weeks before the high season or at the end of the high season. Weather conditions are very similar to the high season in most cases.

We get to use sisterships in any of the bases that The Moorings own. We don't have to sail to our destination, just fly.

They pay for everything for the first 5 seasons; insurance, mortgage, dockage, maintenance which also include replacing anything defective or broken. I did not like the way the heads were working and told the base manager, next time we chartered they replaced all 4 heads with new heads.

We use the boat 4 weeks in BVI; which is the base it is kept in. You use any boat you choose for 4 weeks/year at the base it is docked.

We get 6 weeks to use any where there is a Moorings base. You fly there and sailaway from that base. There are a couple of walk inweeks; which means you can call in and ask if a bout is available 2 weeks before you charter. If there is one available you can use it.

There is a trade in value in your contract so that if you continue with the program, they buy out the old boat and you can reenter the program as long as you buy the same size boat or larger.

This was not a problem for us; since we are going to keep this boat. We will probably take a year off out of the program and then go back in.

It also depends on the size of the boat and usage when selling the boat on the market. There is a guy that is also a member of the Moorings Owners Group who helps out with the sales of some of the boats; not connected with the Moorings organization. He developed sailonline.net — Great Products for Tech Professionals

If you may be interested in any additional info I met a great gal down in Tortola; even though she did not sell us our boat she is the rep in the BVI; and takes care of us and is full of info about the area.

Derrylyn Churchwell 1-284-494-2331 ext.2149
dchurchwell@mooringsnet.com

If you contact her mention our name Sal & Janet Mannuccia s/y NIRVANA, M494
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Old 30-12-2006, 17:30   #11
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Big Help

Sonny: Thanks so much for taking the time & your willingness to share insights into the program. Very helpful & it fills in many gaps plus it eliminates the "sales" spin from the company.
All the best to you & your 494...........Fair Winds
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Old 31-12-2006, 09:00   #12
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I placed the wrong email address for info on chartering and purchasing a charter boat; it should be Yacht Charters | Discount sailboat charters | Charter yacht ownership | Sailonline.com
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