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Old 12-01-2006, 16:12   #16
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Oh my Goodness ! Politics?

The destiny of ones' country is important ! I feel very strongly in my political beliefs. BUT- I feel a need to connect to other people without rancor. If you are left, right, whatever- sometimes you just hafta drink a few, sing some off-color songs, and laugh till ya collapse into immobility.
I say, give political differences a nod, but cold beer, good sailing, and a vertical second finger to controlling influences is a good policy.
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Old 29-04-2006, 16:39   #17
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Latts&atts

Latts&atts forum is a branch of the republican party. Those who oppose the big bother attitude they have toward dealing with cruisers have a moral obligation to overwhelm them with opposition views. Lets crash their party and change it from a Bush Quislings rally.Don't let them have such a sanctuary.
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Old 30-04-2006, 00:13   #18
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I think that 29Cascadefixer has the right attitude. And, since this is not really a political forum and, certainly this thread is not, I would expect that political lambasting would be confined to private email and IMs - not this forum. \\

Thank you.
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Old 30-04-2006, 06:37   #19
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I've been picking up the Lats and Atts magazine recently because it often reflects a type of cruising that I can relate to. I've let my Ocean Navigator and Blue Water Cruising expire because of a loss of content. Cruising World and Sail (Charter World and Snail) went by the wayside in the '90s because they over saintized their content. Real people cruise, warts and all, and I'm interested in how they do it, not the professional yachtsmen covered in so many articles.
As a member of another forum devoted to a Canadian boat it is nice to note that the members are from several countries and just don't mention politics, ever. Sometimes we all get sucked into the bilge from time to time but we just have to get back on deck and stick to sail trim.
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Old 30-04-2006, 07:15   #20
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It strikes me as odd that the best decision is usualy the least popular.
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Old 30-04-2006, 07:44   #21
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Pat:
Although I'm not certain exactly to what you're referring, It doesn’t strike me as odd at all - as I’ve found that the “majority”* (popular opinion, conventional wisdom) is usually wrong, if not in their opinion, then (at least) in their actions.
One should never feel that one is wrong simply because the majority disagrees with one's position. In fact the opposite is more often true. A brief review history, replete with such cases, illustrates the rule that the minority is invariably correct, and all too often has to save the majority from itself.

* “In economics, the majority is always wrong.” ~ John Kenneth Galbraith
* “I'm not sure I want popular opinion on my side -- I've noticed those with the most opinions often have the fewest facts.” ~ Bethania McKenstry
* “You must not follow after the crowd for evil ends.”~ Exodus 23:2.
* “When people begin agreeing with me, I always re-examine my position” ~ Gord May
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Old 30-04-2006, 07:51   #22
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Gord,
It was ment as a prod to solicit you eloquent responce I was incapable of.
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Old 30-04-2006, 09:25   #23
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The other board

There was a post there the other day about folding bikes for a hundred bucks. before you knew it, it turned into trade agreements with China. What ever happened to sailing subjects?
I like the Magazine but the board leaves a lot to be desired.
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Old 04-05-2006, 09:45   #24
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Gord, I know the spirit in which you posted: pride goes before a fall. But to suggest that the majority is "invariably" wrong wields the axe against our entire system, and I think you may have over-stated. I'm hoping your post was tongue-in-cheek, reflecting your sometimes dry, understated humor, which makes the rest of mine unnecessary.

Our system believes in "majority rule, while protecting minority rights." Overall, the majority gets its way, but the minority plays an important role by providing "loyal opposition" and keeping the majority from its excesses. And this is true no matter who is in power. The idea that the majority is right most if the time is the cornerstone of our political and social systems, from the Senate to the playground. To suggest the opposite just isn't rational: it's not how we actually behave, because it's doesn't square with our notions of fair play and universal represention (everybody has a voice), two very highly developed socio-political values in the western world.

But of course, it's pleasant folk wisdom, and I especially like your adage “When people begin agreeing with me, I always re-examine my position.” Humble self-examination seems to be lost on much of our culture, replaced by boastful proclamations of one's worth. Re-discovering that path would bring more civility to a culture stressed by (arguably) too much individuality and not enough consideration of one's responsibilities to the community.

Having said all that, I find that sailors are typically self-reliant individualists who listen, but in the end decide for themselves and accept the consequences for their actions: that's one of the facets of sailing (esp. when it's single-handing) from which I derive immense satisfaction. So I guess I'm just as stubborn as the next guy, and in need of just as much self-reflection.

He who keeps his eyes on the ground never stumbles— Chinese proverb
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Old 04-05-2006, 10:23   #25
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Majority

The Wisdom of Crowds is a recent book by James Surowiecki.
At a fair in 1906 where the crowd was trying to guess the weight of an ox, when the 800 guesses were added up, the guessed weight average was one pound off the actual weight of 1198 pounds.
The stock market correctly assigned blame for the Challenger explosion the next day by dropping Morton Thiokol's price dramatically more than the other suppliers of shuttle pieces.
On the game show "Who wants to be a millionare" the crowd is correct 91% of the time. The reliable friend is correct 65% of the time.
The author has stated that crowds are smartest when people are disagreeing, not when everyone agrees.
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Old 04-05-2006, 13:14   #26
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In western democracies, the majority only participates in governmental decision-making once every four years (or so) - when they elect those that govern them. This is “representative government”, where the majority only rules* insofar is who will govern. The actual ruling (governing) & decision making is not according to any sort of popular majority (or consensus) opinion of the population, but merely a majority of rulers’ opinion.

* I hesitate to mention the 2004 US presidential plurality, lest it be construed as a political comment.

The spirit in which I posted was not “Pride goes before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall”, but “Wisdom is a fountain of life to one who has it, but folly is the punishment of fools”.
“When people begin agreeing with me, I always re-examine my position.” is probably more of a “boastful proclamations of one's (my own) worth”, than a “Humble self-examination”.

Although my tongue is/was firmly in cheek, when I made these, and my earlier comments, it was because I was trying to dislodge a pistachio nut.

Ok, I’ll break down & use a smiley .

Respectfully,
Gord the iconoclast
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Old 04-05-2006, 14:30   #27
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Gord - damn - there goes the guessing game.
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Old 04-05-2006, 15:01   #28
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Latts& atts

Every day of our lives is affected by politics.Cruisers , being a crowd that doesn't belive in leaving their lives to fate , are inclined to push back when politics pushes them. Our unorthodox lifestyles mean that we get pushed more than others trrying to force us back on the treadmill of conformity.Will I push back. Damnd right. Thats life.
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Old 04-05-2006, 16:25   #29
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Thomas:
I cannot imagine that there could have been any ‘guessing game’ about my radical philosophies, and supercilious demeanor. Anyone who didn’t already understand that I’m intellectually arrogant, hasn’t followed my writings, nor understood my unsavory character traits.

"The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails." - William Arthur Ward

The optimist sees the glass as half full, the pessimist sees it as half empty, I (as a ‘realist’) see the glass as “too big”. ~ Gord May as stolen from someone else.
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Old 05-05-2006, 06:31   #30
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Gord - I do like your 'out of the ...glass' thinking
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