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Old 18-10-2006, 22:24   #16
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Jentine, I tried to write a response to Gary much earlier today, but deleted what I had written as I felt I could not word it right so early in the morning. I asked if one of our other team members could step in and respond (thanks Paul and Del). 'm a little more awake now and Brain is functioning better.
I don't see Gary's post as being a major issue as in some inflamitory accusations that crop up here from time to time, except for the major fact that Gori or the Representitive company Gary dealt with can not respond to defend themselves. The issue maybe fact, but without the other party able to respond, we as readers will never know.
In a court of law, that is considered here'say. For a person to make a public accusation could also be considered slander. The main point for the reply being made by Paul is mainly for ALL our education on our BB's policy and rules and not a slap around the ears with a wet fish to Gary, so Gary, please don't take it that way.

Now on to the realted subject. So can someone tell me just how is the Gori Prop attached, that it can come undone??

Another point I don't realy understand is why you DON'T get prop walk with a Gori as against anything else. Are we talking in reverse only??
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Old 18-10-2006, 22:24   #17
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Jentine, I tried to write a response to Gary much earlier today, but deleted what I had written as I felt I could not word it right so early in the morning. I asked if one of our other team members could step in and respond (thanks Paul and Del). 'm a little more awake now and Brain is functioning better.
I don't see Gary's post as being a major issue as in some inflamitory accusations that crop up here from time to time, except for the major fact that Gori or the Representitive company Gary dealt with can not respond to defend themselves. The issue maybe fact, but without the other party able to respond, we as readers will never know.
In a court of law, that is considered here'say. For a person to make a public accusation could also be considered slander. The main point for the reply being made by Paul is mainly for ALL our education on our BB's policy and rules and not a slap around the ears with a wet fish to Gary, so Gary, please don't take it that way.

Now on to the realted subject. So can someone tell me just how is the Gori Prop attached, that it can come undone??

Another point I don't realy understand is why you DON'T get prop walk with a Gori as against anything else. Are we talking in reverse only??
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Old 19-10-2006, 17:24   #18
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At the risk of being BANNED from here, I am surprised from the impact levied from moderators and administrators on this POST.

As a SAMS, NAMS, surveyor, member of ABYC, EXCHANGE, as a professional in this trade, 30+ years, the poster from Turkey has a legitimate complaint, I didn't see his post as being a liability to the webmaster, or webmasters, forum, but rather informative and purpose for it's members to check twice, just as this forum is all about....to help fellow SAILBOATERS for their needs...............
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Old 19-10-2006, 17:24   #19
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At the risk of being BANNED from here, I am surprised from the impact levied from moderators and administrators on this POST.

As a SAMS, NAMS, surveyor, member of ABYC, EXCHANGE, as a professional in this trade, 30+ years, the poster from Turkey has a legitimate complaint, I didn't see his post as being a liability to the webmaster, or webmasters, forum, but rather informative and purpose for it's members to check twice, just as this forum is all about....to help fellow SAILBOATERS for their needs...............
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Old 19-10-2006, 18:15   #20
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The notion that a consumer cannot relate ONE personal experience with a product as a liability to a web site owner is proposterous.

We need MORE consumers to speak out with with experience bad AND good because... unlike advertising.. this provides consumers with some real life experience of other consumers.

Who would you ask for a review of a car... the salesman or someone who owns one?

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Old 19-10-2006, 19:12   #21
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Maybe it's a ligitemate complaint, maybe not. The complaint is between Gary and Gori. Not to be aired here on THIS particular forum. It's not what this Forum is about. If any other Forum wishes to go down that path, then that is up to them, but we will not be. End of story. As Hylyte has said, he has had good customer support. So there maybe many reasons why Gori have not got back to Gary that we will never know about.
If this thread continues to remain on the tangent of slander, intentional or not, it will be deleted.

Now as I said in my earlier post, lets get this thread back on track and look at the product itself constructively. What has been found wrong with teh way it is attached is one of the questions posted by a couple of us.
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Old 20-10-2006, 00:56   #22
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Eaglesailtwo, if you have all those letters behind your name, then you for one should know how to conduct yourself in a matter like this. It's all in the wording. Yes Gary has a ligitimate complaint. He has had his prop fail. He has had poor response and support from the company representing Gori. No arguments there. But that is all that has to be said. Anything else without the ability of the other party replying is considered slander and will not be tolerated here. Don't like it? sorry that's the board we are presenting.
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Old 20-10-2006, 05:06   #23
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I am not sure I understand the boundaries re consumer "experieices" on this forum. Can someone make a clear statement about what is OK and what is not?

I often read discussions of products... so and so does so and so and why it works or doesn't. To me this is a legitimate discussion and valuable to me as a consumer. I take it with a grain of salt because it is one experience out of thousands or millions.

Yet if I read many people stepping forward with the same complaint a pattern emerges. Lots of product liability claims begin with complainents finding out that others have had similar experiences.

I have had "odd" experiences with Raymarine techsupport. Yet I like the product and have no problem discussing the pros and cons and noting that when I spoke with tech support they didn't know what they were talking about - gave misinformation and only later apologised and changed their "story" to align with the truth. This doesn't mean to me that Raymarine techies are incompetant liars... but it was a trouboing experience and why should it not be noted?

I have similar issues from other products from other manufacturers and I would like to pass my experiences around to get other's reactions and perhaps alert them to a potential "problem". And how is that slander?

Manufacturers can also use forums to refute or support their products, amplify or clarify the facts in a case. They should do.

My opinion.

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Old 20-10-2006, 12:44   #24
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Originally Posted by defjef
Manufacturers can also use forums to refute or support their products, amplify or clarify the facts in a case. They should do.

My opinion.

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FACTS

That's the point! Slander is an accusation!

Without the other side of the story it is "hear say". Anyone can post what ever they want on the net and pretty much get away with it.

We (the Mod's) are working on this problem franticly (exaggerated) and hope to come up with a way products can be discussed through experiences and NOT slander.

The opinions of a few does not express the worlds view.

Regards................................_/)
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Old 20-10-2006, 12:51   #25
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FACTS

That's the point! Slander is an accusation!

Without the other side of the story it is "hear say". Anyone can post what ever they want on the net and pretty much get away with it.

We (the Mod's) are working on this problem franticly (exaggerated) and hope to come up with a way products can be discussed through experiences and NOT slander.

The opinions of a few does not express the worlds view.

Regards................................_/)
No, "hear say" is an out of court statement offered to prove the truth of the matter asserted.

The testimony presented by Gary is evidence witnessed directly by Gary. Hearsay would be if Gary said "My friend steve told me that Gori denied his warranty claim."

What could be more valuable to a forum than its members experiences in dealing with products relating to the topic of the forum?

I guess if someone posts that "my XBrand anchor is useless in weeds," the administrators ought to strike that post down as possible slander?
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Old 20-10-2006, 13:20   #26
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Slander is an oral utterance.

Delmary,
You have the final say as to what can and cannot be published on this site, but you should have your facts in line before banishing a subject based on your myopic opinion.
The term is defamation and the following is defined as such:
"In the most general terms, defamation is the issuance of a false statement about another person, which causes that person to suffer harm. Defamation can come in either the form of libel (written defamation) or slander (oral defamation). To succeed in a case for defamation, you have to prove four elements: 1) a false or defamatory statement was made against you; 2) the statement was made to a third party (anyone other than you, either verbally or in written form); 3) if the defamation was of public concern, then the publisher of the defamation had to be negligent; and 4) you suffered damage, such as an injury to your reputation or, in some cases, mental anguish. "
If anything were true, the case in point is libel, not slander and must be false to meet the criteria.
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Old 20-10-2006, 13:21   #27
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Yeah I think we are getting it. OK, in this situation, there is no denying that Gary has had a major issue with his prop and from the experiance, he's see's a postential ongoing risk to users. There is also no denying that the Distributor has no responded to him and as a result he has no back up service to a very important piece of equipment and one that is extremly expensive.
The wording could be such(or to similar effect) "My Gori propellor fell off in X manuover and from what I can see, it has the potential of doing so for anyone. I have tried contacting the Distributor on several occations with several methods and so far absolutly no reply whatsover. It has no been X time after the event and I feel this is unacceptable."
All the above is factual and as Gary has experianced it.
What is hearsay is saying the Distributor is such and such without the Distributor being able to reply. Maybe, just maybe, the issue has not gotten to the person that needs to deal withit. Maybe the Distributor has reffered the issue onto Gori for reply and has so far not had such. Maybe a reply has been given and it went into cyber space. I've had that happen. Maybe many things.
One thing that becomes the most important though. The power that this Forum has is immense. It's been proven before with manufacturers comeing on here and discussing there product. We as the "team" can approach a manufacturer and invite them to respond. But they will not respond if the accusation is inflamitory and we won't be asking them if it is inflamitory.

Does that all make sense and help??
Please also Remember, this is relatively a new site andthe "team" is certainly new. We are discussing situations in the background and working out policies on how to deal with situations as they arise. So please bare with us as we are also learning.
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Old 20-10-2006, 13:37   #28
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Quote:
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No, "hear say" is an out of court statement offered to prove the truth of the matter asserted.

The testimony presented by Gary is evidence witnessed directly by Gary. Hearsay would be if Gary said "My friend steve told me that Gori denied his warranty claim."
I'm sorry, have you met Gary?? Does he really exist?? Personally, as far as I'm concerned, anything posted on the net is "hear say". I take every post with caution!!! As I've stated before "Anyone can post what ever they want on the net and pretty much get away with it." Heck, I can even print out certificates starting I'm a doctor.

This guy may have a grudge against someone at Gori/AD for all we know.

The point is we just don't want some new member coming on here just to post an accusation and just disappear. Lets hear the facts.

For all we know Gori may be the worst vendor out there. As a sailor who uses a folding prop. I'd like to know the facts myself. What went wrong?? Not who wronged who. We can't seem to get that answered.
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Old 20-10-2006, 14:03   #29
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I'm sorry, have you met Gary?? Does he really exist?? Personally, as far as I'm concerned, anything posted on the net is "hear say". I take every post with caution!!! As I've stated before "Anyone can post what ever they want on the net and pretty much get away with it." Heck, I can even print out certificates starting I'm a doctor.

This guy may have a grudge against someone at Gori/AD for all we know.

The point is we just don't want some new member coming on here just to post an accusation and just disappear. Lets hear the facts.

For all we know Gori may be the worst vendor out there. As a sailor who uses a folding prop. I'd like to know the facts myself. What went wrong?? Not who wronged who. We can't seem to get that answered.
Gary is still offering direct testimony, not hearsay. Either Gary is credible or he isn't. Maybe Gary is lying. Maybe Gary tried to get something for free from Gori and threatened that he would post something on the internet if Gori didn't succumb. However, that is the nature of internet. We must always read a post with a grain of salt. One learns how to research things on the internet knowing that much of what we will read is false. But we are still better off having the knowledge out there posted somewhere even though you might have to read a nonsense post or two.
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Old 20-10-2006, 14:18   #30
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jzk, self accountability? What are you? Some kind of sailor or something?
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