Forum Fundamentalism

[Alan Wheeler]

When someone offers a link to another Forum where they had for example a great discussion on, “Noise and Vibration on yachts” that is not “harvesting” your members

Well firstly, if you like the discussion, why not start a thread on that subject here?
But aside from that, I don't think you understand the term "harvesting". Let me ask you a question, do you like getting Phone polling? Someone calls you, usually at the most inconveniant time like meal time, and try to sell you insurance or cellphns or whatever. I sure don't. Now even worse, do you mind people on the internet trying to send you their specials on cellphns or viagra or what ever else spam is out there. Yep it's spam. Harvesting is a similar thing. Someone uses our data base here, and takes your name and then sends you information on their site. Now it just so happens that in this case it is a sailing site. But only because we know that by this discusion. But normally we would never know. So ensuring that we protect our members here, including you from spam etc, we have rules, and we work hard in the background to catch these characters that try it. If you like, we can make you an exception and pass on all spam to you if you really want it. I must be a holiday somewhere, because we sure have had a lot of it in the last 24hrs.

[Pelagic]

Hi Alan, perhaps I misunderstood the issue.

If a member offers a link to another boating or technical Forum that offers a specific insight into the thread subject, is that considered spamming?

Gord is always providing informative links, is that also spamming?

I am loyal to this Forum but (using my example) starting a discussion anew without sharing the insight from knowledgeable participants in another Forum seems silly.

While my masts have had a bit of rot in them lately I’m not in the market yet for Viagra, but I do appreciate your kind offer.

And mostly I thank all the Mods for the housekeeping they do on our behalf. I just don't want the baby thrown out with the bath water

[Alan Wheeler]

Hear about the guy that got a Viagra pill stuck in his throat?? He had a stiff neck for hrs:-)
In answer to your question, no not at all. We are only concerned if the link is made by someone that owns a commercial site and is either posting information and links to it, or if they go around in the background contacting members and sending them the same via Email or PM or what ever. And we stop several of those, usually soliciting something non boating related, but sometime it is. Like a common couple of spams we get are for sailing in Croatia and Turkey.
So no, we are not being overprotective of the site. We just want to ensure our members remain safe from such crap.
Now personally in regards to the new Multi site, I have no issue with it, nor do i think any of our team nor Andy has any issue with it. What upset me was due to communication going on in the background for quite sometime with several members and then seeing them use here to try and star their own ball rolling seemingly. Now I have a great deal of respect for Rick505 and he has been great to communicate with and I believe he has the right intentions. I don't agree that we have a "bashing" issue here. But a few others have other thoughts on that and I truly believe their intentions were or are not honorable. However, if we really had issues with all the goings on, we have one very powerful option at our disposal to remedy them. The ban button. Simple and effective. But we have not used it on any of those members. I think and hope that speaks volumes as to our patience. If anyone does get banned around here, it will only be due to severly and intentionally breaking forum rules.

[Wotname]

You know, I am a long way away from this particular issue but it seems to me -at first glance - to be a case of a "technical" infringement of the rules; looking deeper may reveal other aspects.

I trust the Mods to look deeper and I am sure they have - they have made their decision and whether its a good one or bad one, it doesn't matter - 'cause it is their call and they don't have to explain it -IMO.

In the end, even if they got it "wrong", that is the price we have to pay for having a very good cruisers forum.

This is how civil societies work, there are rules and sometimes they are mis-applied or are inflexible but in general they are the oil that makes communities work.

A BIG thanks for carrying out what, to most of us, would be a thankless task.

[GordMay]

The original link to the new forum didn’t direct the reader to any (redeeming) informative content.
It was merely a solicitation of our membership to visit another (competing) site.

This would be somewhat akin to someone hanging around my Ford dealership, and directing my customers to their own Honda dealership, across the street.
Should I be expected to let them remain on my private property, “harvesting” the potential customers that my advertising, reputation (& etc) brought in?

Whilst our CruisersForum members are absolutely free to visit any other sites they wish; this site should not be expected to advertise, and provide transportation to (link) another site.

I often provide links to information on other sites, which is complementary to our discussions. This practice allows our members to review the complete information at it’s source, without the limitations imposed by utilizing brief quotations.

Seldom, if ever, do I link to other (competing) Discussion Forums.

I may also, sometimes be guilty of inadvertent improprieties or unethical practices; at which time(s) I expect to be notified of my transgressions; that I may correct them. Several members have been kind enough to PM me on those unhappy occasions, allowing me to learn from, and correct, my mistakes.

Thanks to all of our members, for joining in with us, and helping to make (& keep) the CruisersForum one of the premiere Cruising/Sailing/Boating sites on the Web.

[Factor]

Originally Posted by Alan Wheeler

do you like getting Phone polling? Someone calls you, usually at the most inconveniant time like meal time, and try to sell you insurance or cellphns or whatever. I sure don't. Now even worse, do you mind people on the internet trying to send you their specials on cellphns or viagra or what ever else spam is out there. Yep it's spam. Harvesting is a similar thing. Someone uses our data base here, and takes your name and then sends you information on their site. .

I didnt phone poll, I didnt spam people, I didnt send emails - I didnt use your database, I posted a link to an area that discusses multihulls. - Thats it - nothing else. I did none of the things you mention above. I got told to not do it - I didn't do it and havent said anything else.

BTW I have posted a link to this site on the other site, (well actully have sent the mod there the link to post - as I have learned a little etiiquette here )happy to remove it from there if you want me to.

All I wanted to do was post a link - I did you guys said no I I have accepted your ruling

[Factor]

Originally Posted by Alan Wheeler

What upset me was due to communication going on in the background for quite sometime with several members and then seeing them use here to try and star their own ball rolling seemingly. Now I have a great deal of respect for Rick505 and he has been great to communicate with and I believe he has the right intentions.

Do I take it from that that you guys read PMs between members? - Not suggesting that you should or shouldnt just want to know cause that will change how I use PMs

[Pelagic]

Thanks Alan and Gord for clarifying a misunderstanding on my part.
I really enjoy this forum and would hate for it to loose it’s informality and tolerance that the very best small organizations have.

Factor, I have alerted the Mods to unsolicitated PM Trolls in the past, so I guess they can see them if they have the time

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by Factor

Do I take it from that that you guys read PMs between members? - Not suggesting that you should or shouldn’t just want to know cause that will change how I use PMs

Thanks for understanding and accepting the Forum policy.

NO - we don't (are unable to) read Private Messages between members, except as they are specifically addressed or copied to us.

The PMs (background communications), to which Alan referred, were between members & moderators, and/or between the management team; and would include “open” discussions between all moderators (invisible to members).

[Alan Wheeler]

I didnt phone poll, I didnt spam people, I didnt send emails - I didnt use your database, I posted a link to an area that discusses multihulls. - Thats it - nothing else. I did none of the things you mention above. I got told to not do it - I didn't do it and havent said anything else.

And you see, this is where much of the issue lies. You read things or suggest something has been stated, into posts that simply are not intended or implied. I never implied any of that at you. I was discussing what we protect our members from, in relation to Pelagics questions. How the hell do you read into that, that I have implied I am talking about you. I don't get it and yet this, every time has been the issues we have had with the multi forum and most specifically with you Factor. It is mostly you Factor, that keeps suggesting someone is making some attack about the Multis that simply isn't. I hope you are not going around making little accusations to others and actually blowing this entire thing out.

Do I take it from that that you guys read PMs between members? - Not suggesting that you should or shouldnt just want to know cause that will change how I use PMs

If you are mean can the Adim/Mods see a PM "Private Message" between you and some other member, absolutely not. It wouldn't be called a Private message if we could now would it. I don't believe it is possible. Interesting question though isn't it? Why would you be so worried about what you have been saying to others??
However, back to the question, if one of the Mods or Admin staff have PM'd a member in regards to their behavior, we would also place that PM in the Moderation section along with any reply that the member posted in response. This is so we can have safety as a Mod team that something said is documented and safety to the member that some mod has not gone nuts and posting something nasty to the member.
Not every discussion however. I have many happy discussions with members and I am sure the rest of the team do also. And they remain Private messages.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by GordMay

I may also, sometimes be guilty of inadvertent improprieties or unethical practices;

Wow

I always wondered what happened behind the scenes in "Modland". Sounds kinda fun

BTW I think the new Multi sailing Forum is a good idea - and I wish it well (and IMO if it is good, then it will ultimately succeed - but a LOT of hardwork involved)..........but quite understand why CF.com would not want it promoted on this forum, after all they are running a bizness.........not a commune

And besides I thought it rather impolite that the new Multi sailing Forum was spammed so blatantly...........

[Alan Wheeler]

And besides I thought it rather impolite that the new Multi sailing Forum was spammed so blatantly...........

I did not know that. If it was just regular everyday spam, welcome to the world of having a website. It takes a lot of work to keep these places clean. If it was related to our "discussion topic" of late, then I can not condone that. Please folks, you may think you mean well, but just leave them be.

[Alan Wheeler]

I just posted this in the our multi forum. I thought maybe it would benefit being here, maybe, maybe not.

I have said this in the past and not sure where. But this place is not about the boats, it's about the people. This is primarily a Cruisers Forum which is why it is called that. What is cruising all about? people that take journeys in boats. The topics are secondary. Yes they are important and are what make the place what it is, but they are secondary. This forum is different to all other fourms for that one reason. Even the new Multi hull place is specific to boats. It's the other way around for them. The people are secondary, just as important and valued as anyone here is, but secondary to what the forum is all about.
See, I think much of the issue we have herein this CF multi forum is, the members here have not understood that. A goo percentage of you members are manufacturers for a start. I have no problem with that but Your motivation for being here and participating here is diferent and I have to say, the motivation for wanting links to here and other sites are the same. It is networking. No harm in that either, but the issues then arise because you all think this Forum is about the Boat. It is not about the boat.
I don't visit any other site. I may browse over one every now and then just to see what the places are like. But I have never regularly lurked let alone joined another site. Why?? because I love the people here. I have made some awesome friends both here in NZ and all over the world. I have had a close friend of mine here meet a close friend of mine via this site in Moss landing USA. Very cool. I have learnt so much here, but the big thing for me is that I am getting to know other like minded Cruisers from all over the world. That is what it is all about and what this site is ll about. Boats are just a conversation topic and is secondary.

Now, in regards to the link. First of all, it is not the role/domain of the Admins or Mods to list it anyway. If a commercial link is wanting to be placed here, you need to contact the site owner Andy. He will discuss with you the aspects of advertising just like any other commercial venture has to do to advertise there product or site here.

We have grown very tired of all this. Some of us are at the end of our limits on this subject. I suggest we wrap this discussion up or something else will result. I think a few resignations will be the most likely and then here will not be so good anymore. Maybe that is the sole intention of some I dunno, but it sure seems like it. We are frazzled folks.

[little boat]

I don't know what the multi hubub is about because I rarely look at a multi subject, but Wheels, when you say, "Boats are just a conversation topic and is secondary", I have to say that is not the case for me.
I'm not looking to 'make friends' or 'meet fellow cruisers'; I read the forum for info about boats, gear, passages, anchorages etc. to learn something nautical and sometimes try to help somebody out if I think I know the answer to a query. I'm not so interested in the member's personal life or forging a friendship.
Its nice when/if a friendship occurs, but I never realized that is the purpose of this forum. It says Cruising Boats, Cruising People, Cruising Answers as a subtitle to Cruiser's Forum at the top of the page. Maybe the order of those subjects should be switched or reworded because boats are the first on the list.
Not trying to play with semantics, but the concept that I would come here to look for friends is kind of silly. Maybe I'm a crummy member?

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by little boat

... I'm not looking to 'make friends' or 'meet fellow cruisers'; I read the forum for info about boats, gear, passages, anchorages etc. to learn something nautical and sometimes try to help somebody out if I think I know the answer to a query. I'm not so interested in the member's personal life or forging a friendship.
Its nice when/if a friendship occurs, ...

Met too.

There were well under a hundred members (including Alan & Gunner, I believe) when I discovered (thanks to Bobola) the CruisersForum - but the forum was already showing promise of offering excellent content, as well as amiable fraternity. The content is what primarily attracted me to (& keeps me on) the forum.