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Old 27-03-2014, 08:29   #61
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re: Ads reach a record high - MERGED

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Originally Posted by BandB View Post
As a lifelong business person I see this very differently. One builds a web site as a business with the intent of making money. Simple. Many of the wonderful blogs you visit are more than just sharing, they're extra income for the owners. Information over the internet doesn't come free. Now, I'm happy for the site and hope the owner makes lots of money from the ads so the site can continue to flourish. For those of you who say "Well, I don't use the ads or I don't read them" I just reply that many do. If they didn't, the advertisers wouldn't continue and you wouldn't have this site. I always hated the ad sections in Sunday newspapers and back in olden days when we got a paper the first thing I did was throw them away. But obviously others didn't share that feeling as many buy the paper just for the inserts.

Television, Internet. It's all paid for by ads and subscriptions. Now on this site you have two choices, either or. I like that. I don't like when it's both like some of the newspapers have done. I'm fine with the ads on an online newspaper but choose not to pay to subscribe as well. And I must note that the subscription model is failing.

I guess I don't understand protesting a web site owner's means of making money as long as it doesn't include compromising my privacy. There isn't anything I'm forced to click. Just ignore.

And you complain about the comment of the google ads, then really better reconsider since they are based on your browsing history.
As a business person you understand that subjecting your customers and clients to unwanted practices is a sure way to loose them. I don't have a problem with a commercial enterprise doing what it's supposed to do: make money. We are customers and clients giving feedback to the commercial enterprise (CF) that we all obviously value.

No one here is saying they don't want Andy to make a descent coin. Just the opposite in fact. What some of us are saying is that this new approach is impeding our use of the service. As a lifetime business owner I want to hear from my clients (yup ... another lifetime business owner here ... and one that specializes in the sale of content).

In addition, the business model used here is not the simple customer-owner arrangement. The users of this site ARE the content providers. Many people provide vast amounts of quality content for free here. THAT is what attracts the eyeballs, which then feeds the coffers. So it's not standard business/customer relationship. I suspect that is part of the annoyance some of us feel when we also have to suffer through unwanted and obtuse advertising.
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Old 27-03-2014, 09:04   #62
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re: Ads reach a record high - MERGED

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Originally Posted by SaucySailoress
To me, it all seems like win/win. Especially given it's all still for free!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike OReilly View Post
In addition, the business model used here is not the simple customer-owner arrangement. The users of this site ARE the content providers. Many people provide vast amounts of quality content for free here. THAT is what attracts the eyeballs, which then feeds the coffers. So it's not standard business/customer relationship. I suspect that is part of the annoyance some of us feel when we also have to suffer through unwanted and obtuse advertising.
Indeed, it is not a simple case of a forum for free, paid by ads.

A strength of a forum is first and foremost the quality of content. And the content here is provided by many experts for free. Annoy enough content providing users so they migrate elsewhere and interest in a forum diminishes, which leads to a straight downhill ride. The business model described by Mike requires a very careful balance, and I think he nailed it with his description.

I feel a great disturbance in balance of the Force here. As if thousands of souls cried '$%^# ads!' and sobbed in despair.. (apologies to Master Yoda.. )
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Old 27-03-2014, 09:36   #63
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pirate re: Ads reach a record high - MERGED

Yep. Yep. And Yep!

A small drift on HMDRS's comment: He mentioned he wouldn't mind paying a little extra from a CF vendor. Ditto that. I have had to negotiate returns thru mega sites EBay, PayPal, and Amazon. I haven't lost any money yet but EBay and PayPal can take WEEKS to clear things up. Not so with Amazon. They clear things up in hours or the next day. Hear me brothers and sisters: Amazon knows what it's doing. I sure don't mind paying a little extra to shop with confidence.
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Old 27-03-2014, 10:05   #64
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re: Ads reach a record high - MERGED

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Originally Posted by Blue Crab View Post
Yep. Yep. And Yep!

A small drift on HMDRS's comment: He mentioned he wouldn't mind paying a little extra from a CF vendor. Ditto that. I have had to negotiate returns thru mega sites EBay, PayPal, and Amazon. I haven't lost any money yet but EBay and PayPal can take WEEKS to clear things up. Not so with Amazon. They clear things up in hours or the next day. Hear me brothers and sisters: Amazon knows what it's doing. I sure don't mind paying a little extra to shop with confidence.
But it's a GOOD DRIFT!

If we use the vendors here already... It's obvious to me that they will bend over backward for CS and unlikely returns because of the transparency and "good guy" status that got them the the business in the first place...

PLUS ONE MILLION ON AMAZON...
I'm looking for a cut here... but...

They are my go to web store...
Join Amazon Prime for $80ish/yr, and never pay for 2 day shipping again... YES-All free 2 day shipping.. Need it next day? Add $3-10 for a typical order, and it's there... (+ more free ebooks and online video streaming)

Last time I hit the boat in CA, after flying in late and exhausted, the freshwater pump was out... Ordered that night, and for $70 including shipping I had a brand new pump waiting in the marina office the next day... RARE returns are painless....

And 1 more thing... Amazon now has "drop box delivery addresses" everywhere... Sailing away from home? need a part??? have it sent to a regular business that will take it for you... even 7-11/circle-K style convenience stores... Pick up your part at 2 in the morning if it goes to one of these 24 hour places... Now you can get your Slurpee, beer, questionable hot dog, Racor filter, or injection pump... All at the same store!
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Old 27-03-2014, 10:38   #65
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re: Ads reach a record high - MERGED

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All true for me too. I went to Hopcar's site to buy my new charger but they didn't carry the Sterling/ProMar charger I wanted based on CFer recommendations.
Doesn't mean he can not get it for you. He has gotten things for me that weren't in catalog. I just sent him an email with what I wanted. Send him a PM or email and ask!
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Old 27-03-2014, 12:08   #66
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re: Ads reach a record high - MERGED

Kind of ironic that this conversation has drifted from the negative aspects of ads and privacy to something 'pro-Amazon'. To me, Amazon is the devil when it comes to privacy issues. At least Google is pretty up front (imho); Amazon is that sneaky data collector that knows more about you than they let on and has no more morals than the average loan shark and is twice as manipulative...

A quick Google: Analysis: Sleeping ad giant Amazon finally stirs | Reuters

Amazon's Next Big Business Is Selling You | Wired Business | Wired.com

And what they've done to the publishing industry? Disgraceful... George Packer: Is Amazon Bad for Books? : The New Yorker
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Old 27-03-2014, 12:32   #67
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re: Ads reach a record high - MERGED

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailorboy1 View Post
Doesn't mean he can not get it for you. He has gotten things for me that weren't in catalog. I just sent him an email with what I wanted. Send him a PM or email and ask!
I forgot to post the same thing... I hadn't asked yet.. But I bet he would be willing to get about anything... Even if mostly for good will... Ahem.. Hoppy you listnin'

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Originally Posted by Macblaze View Post
Kind of ironic that this conversation has drifted from the negative aspects of ads and privacy to something 'pro-Amazon'. To me, Amazon is the devil when it comes to privacy issues. At least Google is pretty up front (imho); Amazon is that sneaky data collector that knows more about you than they let on and has no more morals than the average loan shark and is twice as manipulative...

A quick Google: Analysis: Sleeping ad giant Amazon finally stirs | Reuters

Amazon's Next Big Business Is Selling You | Wired Business | Wired.com

And what they've done to the publishing industry? Disgraceful... George Packer: Is Amazon Bad for Books? : The New Yorker
I didn't say anything about their business ethics, but it IS IRONIC
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Old 27-03-2014, 14:54   #68
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re: Ads reach a record high - MERGED

Back on topic....
I don't mind the ads as such.

However.... I am usually on a rather slow connection.... these ads between posts take a nano second or two to load... if there are a number of them they take quite a few nanoseconds.
The result is that if I am down at the bottom of a page ( as you tend to be when reading new stuff) it will 'jump' as the ads load.
Same but not quite as bad as when someone has put big hi-res pics on a blog.

Giving me the irrits....
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Old 27-03-2014, 16:36   #69
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re: Ads reach a record high - MERGED

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike OReilly View Post
As a business person you understand that subjecting your customers and clients to unwanted practices is a sure way to loose them. I don't have a problem with a commercial enterprise doing what it's supposed to do: make money. We are customers and clients giving feedback to the commercial enterprise (CF) that we all obviously value.

No one here is saying they don't want Andy to make a descent coin. Just the opposite in fact. What some of us are saying is that this new approach is impeding our use of the service. As a lifetime business owner I want to hear from my clients (yup ... another lifetime business owner here ... and one that specializes in the sale of content).

In addition, the business model used here is not the simple customer-owner arrangement. The users of this site ARE the content providers. Many people provide vast amounts of quality content for free here. THAT is what attracts the eyeballs, which then feeds the coffers. So it's not standard business/customer relationship. I suspect that is part of the annoyance some of us feel when we also have to suffer through unwanted and obtuse advertising.



Mike, thank you very much. You've expresed how I feel better than I could myself. Good on ya!
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Old 28-03-2014, 03:05   #70
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Chick Ad's

Thanks, everyone for all the feedback. It has been interesting to read, and we do listen. It's feedback like this that has prompted me to ask the boss for changes occasionally. And full credit to the boss, he listens, and takes on board what he can. What he can't, he always has good reasons for, in my opinion. Indeed, most of the great ideas that come about are his...


Quote:
Originally Posted by El Pinguino View Post
Back on topic....
I don't mind the ads as such.

However.... I am usually on a rather slow connection.... these ads between posts take a nano second or two to load... if there are a number of them they take quite a few nanoseconds.
The result is that if I am down at the bottom of a page ( as you tend to be when reading new stuff) it will 'jump' as the ads load.
Same but not quite as bad as when someone has put big hi-res pics on a blog.

Giving me the irrits....

I can assure you, that we do our best to overcome this. We limit vendor ads strictly to 40kb. Some vendors would rather have more than this, but it is exactly because of this that we limit them. Remember, if you're a regular user of the forum, and it's worth $15.01, then you can upgrade and disable these ads. You are the members who will seek out vendors when you need them, so that's also a win/win!
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Old 28-03-2014, 04:47   #71
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re: Ads reach a record high - MERGED

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrm View Post
Indeed, it is not a simple case of a forum for free, paid by ads.

A strength of a forum is first and foremost the quality of content. And the content here is provided by many experts for free. Annoy enough content providing users so they migrate elsewhere and interest in a forum diminishes, which leads to a straight downhill ride. The business model described by Mike requires a very careful balance, and I think he nailed it with his description.

I feel a great disturbance in balance of the Force here. As if thousands of souls cried '$%^# ads!' and sobbed in despair.. (apologies to Master Yoda.. )
I've seen the downhill ride and nearly total ghost town transformation of a once VERY ACTIVE Jaguar forum. Like CF, the need for avoiding bloody expensive mistakes and complete head scratching mysteries parallels the CF forum very closely... Four years ago, it was impossible to find your new post on the front page after 1/2 hr... I went back there and my post from 2 years ago was 1/3 the way down the list... VERY SAD for all... There's another Jag forum that has blown it out of the water....

Quote:
Originally Posted by El Pinguino View Post
Back on topic....
I don't mind the ads as such.

However.... I am usually on a rather slow connection.... these ads between posts take a nano second or two to load... if there are a number of them they take quite a few nanoseconds.
The result is that if I am down at the bottom of a page ( as you tend to be when reading new stuff) it will 'jump' as the ads load.
Same but not quite as bad as when someone has put big hi-res pics on a blog.

Giving me the irrits....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
[/SIZE][/COLOR]

Mike, thank you very much. You've expresed how I feel better than I could myself. Good on ya!
Bingo #2 on both ya....

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaucySailoress View Post
Thanks, everyone for all the feedback. It has been interesting to read, and we do listen. It's feedback like this that has prompted me to ask the boss for changes occasionally. And full credit to the boss, he listens, and takes on board what he can. What he can't, he always has good reasons for, in my opinion. Indeed, most of the great ideas that come about are his...

I can assure you, that we do our best to overcome this. We limit vendor ads strictly to 40kb. Some vendors would rather have more than this, but it is exactly because of this that we limit them. Remember, if you're a regular user of the forum, and it's worth $15.01, then you can upgrade and disable these ads. You are the members who will seek out vendors when you need them, so that's also a win/win!
Andy seems like a great guy! The loadings are sometimes slow... But we wouldn't know about your efforts to diminish this unless we have discussions like this and the other thread...

I Want to help improve CF - The CF Suggestion Box Thread - Cruisers & Sailing Forums

You don't know if we're frustrated if we keep quiet... and we don't know that your putting in efforts if you don't let us know.... Elephants in a room have broken up more marriages/partnerships than anything else... We just want everybody to be happy!
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Old 28-03-2014, 05:14   #72
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re: Ads reach a record high - MERGED

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You don't know if we're frustrated if we keep quiet... .. We just want everybody to be happy!

I'm not frustrated and I'm happy. Just to say that not everyone is otherwise.
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Old 28-03-2014, 05:23   #73
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re: Ads reach a record high - MERGED

Quote:
As a business person you understand that subjecting your customers and clients to unwanted practices is a sure way to loose them. I don't have a problem with a commercial enterprise doing what it's supposed to do: make money. We are customers and clients giving feedback to the commercial enterprise (CF) that we all obviously value.

No one here is saying they don't want Andy to make a descent coin. Just the opposite in fact. What some of us are saying is that this new approach is impeding our use of the service. As a lifetime business owner I want to hear from my clients (yup ... another lifetime business owner here ... and one that specializes in the sale of content).

In addition, the business model used here is not the simple customer-owner arrangement. The users of this site ARE the content providers. Many people provide vast amounts of quality content for free here. THAT is what attracts the eyeballs, which then feeds the coffers. So it's not standard business/customer relationship. I suspect that is part of the annoyance some of us feel when we also have to suffer through unwanted and obtuse advertising.
I'm with Mike. Well said.

Put the ads in the margins.
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Old 28-03-2014, 05:48   #74
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re: Ads reach a record high - MERGED

what is a MILF.......clicked on the pasturised MILK thread......but must have a sticky keyboard........................
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Old 28-03-2014, 06:57   #75
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what is a MILF.......clicked on the pasturised MILK thread......but must have a sticky keyboard........................

Miss, I'd like fajitas.
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