Circumnavigators vs Mt Everest

[nofacey]

Have heard a few times “More people climb Mt Everest than circumnavigate in their own boat”....... finishing up a circumnavigation myself, so interested in how accurate that could be.
- looking at last set of data by Jimmy Cornell, it would appear 80-100 cruising boats circumnavigate every year.
https://cornellsailing.com/2017/08/j...-the-boats-go/

- info I found on successful Mt Everest climbs indicates it used to be rare, but has ramped up heavily especially over the past decade


https://www.quora.com/How-many-peopl...erest-annually

Assuming an average of 2 crew on any boat completing a circumnavigation, that’s about 200 people per year circumnavigate vs 500+ climb Mt Everest...

So ya, it’s more common for people to climb Mt Everest than sail around the world. Amazing.

[belizesailor]

Problem is how exactly do you accurately determine the number of circumnavs per year? Answer: you dont. Ive had a few friends complete circumnavs within the past couple of years, they are not YouTube stars so only a small number of people even know about it and its not documented anywhere.

By contrast Everest is easy to document as permits are required. IIRC a bit over 600 attempted to summit from the Nepal side this year with about 6 deaths.


I recently returned from a trek to Everest Base Camp. Awesome trek, but Ive absolutely no interest in attempting a summit.

Hell of a sunrise there:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/hpw8mfpq6c...A0019.mp4?dl=0

[GILow]

Well, Kevin Fairbrother contributed to the stats in his own way. Three Everest ascents but he only lasted a couple of weeks on the GGR.

There may be a message in this somewhere.

[boatman61]

Cornell is quoting ARC figures.. he has not a clue about the non profit making circumnav's..

[nofacey]

The 547 Successful Everest summits in 2012 are indeed easy to document, as the permit data shows.

Boatman61, if you looked at the data linked, it tells you it has zero to do with ARC - it’s from Government Port Captains for ports of entry = documented information.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by nofacey

The 547 Successful Everest summits in 2012 are indeed easy to document, as the permit data shows.

Boatman61, if you looked at the data linked, it tells you it has zero to do with ARC - it’s from Government Port Captains for ports of entry = documented information.

Port Captains are only responsible for their port, not whether a boat is circumnavigating. Ive never encountered that question on a clearance document.

Cornell's survey covers many ports of call commonly visited by circumnavigators, but boats visiting them are not necessarily circumnavigating.

I dont see how boats being included in this survey = a documented circumnavigator.

[Lost Horizons]

Originally Posted by nofacey

Have heard a few times “More people climb Mt Everest than circumnavigate in their own boat”.......

Singlehandedly. Not in the groups.

[SVTwilight]

I think most of Today’s Everest Climbs are organized Tours where you pay $40k for an Agency to lead you to the top. The Gummit there charges an $11k permit fee. It is all about the tourist $$$ now.

Most of these are NOT expeditions as in the days of old.

Still, VERY risky, and physically challenging.

Up until the 1990s there was a cumulative 10% fatality rate.

I think the circumnavigation is more challenging overall. Honestly, more knowledge, skiils amd money required!

[Mystktravler]

I circumnavigate the world twice a month...now that’s amazing.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by SVTwilight

I think most of Today’s Everest Climbs are organized Tours where you pay $40k for an Agency to lead you to the top. The Gummit there charges an $11k permit fee. It is all about the tourist $$$ now.

Most of these are NOT expeditions as in the days of old.

Still, VERY risky, and physically challenging.

Up until the 1990s there was a cumulative 10% fatality rate.

I think the circumnavigation is more challenging overall. Honestly, more knowledge, skiils amd money required!

Yes, a circumnav requires more skills. Everest is not a very technical climb...not really a climb at all by the most common route, just a trudge up the mountain in very dangerous conditions. Many, who are not very experienced, are just paying for someone to take them to the summit, which increases the failed attempts, risks to sherpas, and deaths.

Some do attempt the summit independently. Some also attempt without a permit, a couple of guys got busted this year for that.

Google "Rainbow Valley Everest" for a darker side of the obsession with Everest.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by belizesailor

Port Captains are only responsible for their port, not whether a boat is circumnavigating. Ive never encountered that question on a clearance document.

Cornell's survey covers many ports of call commonly visited by circumnavigators, but boats visiting them are not necessarily circumnavigating.

I dont see how boats being included in this survey = a documented circumnavigator.

Exactly.. Las Palmas Gran Canaria for example.. records of boats arriving for maybe a Transat.. or just up to Madeira and Azores before heading back to the Continent.. St Lucia is another one.. arrivals yes.. next port yes.. but you would have to track every boat through every port to know if it was a circumnavigation.
The only firm numbers can come from the RTW ARC..

[Taipe]

Originally Posted by belizesailor

Port Captains are only responsible for their port, not whether a boat is circumnavigating. Ive never encountered that question on a clearance document.

Cornell's survey covers many ports of call commonly visited by circumnavigators, but boats visiting them are not necessarily circumnavigating.

I dont see how boats being included in this survey = a documented circumnavigator.

To add to the inaccuracy of the successfully completed circumnavigation numbers, there are so many variables to take into account. And even if we are able to account for them, then how do we compare the importance of how a life-time adventure is achieved? - whether or not the trip was begun and successfully completed within one 12 month period, whether non-stop, whether solo or not, and whether or not by way of the horn or the canal? Should we think more or less for the way it is acheived? The one thing we should firmly be convinced of is that the majority of adventures of the human heart go unsung by others.

[grantmc]

Originally Posted by belizesailor

Problem is how exactly do you accurately determine the number of circumnavs per year? Answer: you dont. Ive had a few friends complete circumnavs within the past couple of years, they are not YouTube stars so only a small number of people even know about it and its not documented anywhere. ...

Absolutely correct, most people never have a channel or write a book about their accomplishments. Nor is there anyone to tell, and certainly no one that you have to tell. And let's say there was somewhere to register, then a definition of what a circumnavigation is would also be required. Once upon a time English gentlemen would pass the 3 capes; Good Hope, Leeuwin and Horn. And what about time taken? Whether solo or crewed?

An example of a different type of circumnavigation was Graeme Kendall in his Greg Elliot designed Astral Express. He planned to do the North West Passage east to west, all solo. Sailed out of Auckland NZ in 2005, north across Australia, across to Cape Horn, north to Greenland. Had issues so sold the boat in Greenland to a local and flew home to NZ, very very disappointed.

Five years later called the guy that he'd sold his boat to to ask if he could borrow it back. Amazingly he was given a yes, so flew back to Nuuk, Greenland where he picked up his old boat, sailed across the North West Passage, and then south to Auckland. 28,000 miles, solo. Just as an aside Mr Sincliar did write a book that's available. Unfortunately not a particularly good book in my view. But a wonderful sailing achievement.

For more info click here.

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Exactly.. Las Palmas Gran Canaria for example.. records of boats arriving for maybe a Transat.. or just up to Madeira and Azores before heading back to the Continent.. St Lucia is another one.. arrivals yes.. next port yes.. but you would have to track every boat through every port to know if it was a circumnavigation.
The only firm numbers can come from the RTW ARC..

There was a thread some time back.... it found Cornell's info seriously flawed....
f'rinstance.... ( iirc) 300 yachts a year entering into Ushuaia.... where some 270 or so of the 'entries' were the same 20 or so boats coming and going between Ush and Williams - a daysail away.

[nofacey]

El Pinquino you are right - you can't for instance look at the volume going thru the Panaa canal, and make any conclusions about circumnavigators.

To quantify the circumnavigators in motion (regardless of their period of circumnavigation, 1yr or 10 yrs), you look at the bottle neck - you either go thru Suez or bounce around Africa. (excluding the hand full of non-stop racers/record pursuers who drop deep south and bypass everything)

from 2015 data:
19 boats thru Suez, approx 50% on circumnavigation per the report.

220 boats thru Richard's Bay/Durban = most common arrival/departure points as you position yourself for weather windows to round the Agulhas or run the Mozambique. I did take the liberty of applying that same 50% circumnavigating

You can cross check via the 196 boats thru St Helena - were every circumnavigator seems to go thru. Applying the same 50% as circumnavigators might seem very limiting - but many boats going to the Med from South Africa (including new boats on delivery) still go thru.

Still it'd be easy to argue 90% of the St Helena boats are on circumnavigation = 176

Doubling that = giving a high of approx 352 people on circumnavigation vs 547 that climbed Mt Everest
Perfect numbers - NO
Decent ballpark, yes

Is there still a substantial difference supporting more climbers than navigators - yes.