Great Lakes Cirmcumnavigation

[JOHN LECZNAR]

Seeking advise on the following:

I have purchased a bare bones 1979 Pacific Seacraft Flicka with the intent to ready her this summer for circumnavigating the Great Lakes coastline next season, I'm anticipating it will take 5-6 months. (Bucket List - I'm retired and on a tight budget).

Project elements (to date):
1) I've rebuilt the hatch in oak and teak;
2) I've ordered a set of new sails (North Sails) and considering asking a forestay for a storm jib;
3) I'm having a dodger installed and have been advised to add a Bimini;
4) I've added shoreline power and would like to add capability to charge my batteries will docked;
5) I purchased a bladder to attach to my water pump faucet;
6) I purchased a porta-potty;
7) I'm researching to select and install a sailing GPS.

Greatly appreciated.

[boatpoker]

6 months !

1 and possibly 2 of those months are going to freeze your butt.
Suggest you add some kind of heat.

Be aware that to be considered a "marine head", it must have be a permanent fixture with a deck pumpout facility.

Although the law does not appear to specifically forbid having alcohol onboard a boat that is not fitted with a permanent toilet. I have witnessed people being charged simply for having alcohol on such a vessel.

[Mike OReilly]

What BP said about heat… you’re going to be hard pressed to squeeze six months into sailable time. It’s possible, but the shoulders will be chilly. A Flicka is a great little boat, but won’t be very fast. Personally, I’d target a smaller portion of the Lakes one year; perhaps the lower Erie and Ontario, one season, then Huron/Georgian Bay/North Channel the next. Superior can easily be a season on it’s own … or two, or three.

Actually, on Superior you will find it difficult to carry enough supplies on a small boat. The resupply stops are few and far between on the north shore. I don’t know what your tankage is on a Flicka, but you may have to take on lake water. Fuel may be a problem. Not sure about food storage...

[JOHN LECZNAR]

Thank you will take input on 'marine head' and alcohol under advisement on a solution. Preliminary estimates suggests my Flicka should be able to hold 3 weeks of provisions and water. I have identified potential ports for re-supplies every two weeks with the exception of the northern coastline of Superior. I did purchase a heater as I plan to leave from Port Huron the first week in May then follow the Michigan Lake Huron & Lake Michigan coastlines. The planned itinerary would have me proceed north following the Wisconsin coast then east along the southern coastline of Michigans' Upper Peninsula. I hope to reach the Soo Locks the third week in June then follow Superiors' southern coastline west to Duluth before heading north following its' northern coastline back to the Soo Locks. I'm hoping to be in the North Channel in the first week in August. Following Lake Hurons' Canadian coastline I hope to reach Lake Erie by the second week of September then through the Welland Canal and enter Lake Ontario the last week of September. Two additional weeks to circumnavigate Lake Ontario before re-entering Lake Erie heading west as I follow the southern coastline then north to Port Huron mid-October.

[30yearslater]

Best wishes for a successful voyage. I spoke with Eviro-Canada about the marine head requirements. After the resurrection of my boat I was mortified by having to cut into my newly replaced deck for a pump out fitting. I should have kept the response but was informed a mounted Porta Potti is acceptable as long as you have the mounting kit. What they don't want to see is a true portable toilet. That being a bucket and seat or a Porta Potti not attached to the boat.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by JOHN LECZNAR

Thank you will take input on 'marine head' and alcohol under advisement on a solution. Preliminary estimates suggests my Flicka should be able to hold 3 weeks of provisions and water. I have identified potential ports for re-supplies every two weeks with the exception of the northern coastline of Superior. I did purchase a heater as I plan to leave from Port Huron the first week in May then follow the Michigan Lake Huron & Lake Michigan coastlines. The planned itinerary would have me proceed north following the Wisconsin coast then east along the southern coastline of Michigans' Upper Peninsula. I hope to reach the Soo Locks the third week in June then follow Superiors' southern coastline west to Duluth before heading north following its' northern coastline back to the Soo Locks. I'm hoping to be in the North Channel in the first week in August. Following Lake Hurons' Canadian coastline I hope to reach Lake Erie by the second week of September then through the Welland Canal and enter Lake Ontario the last week of September. Two additional weeks to circumnavigate Lake Ontario before re-entering Lake Erie heading west as I follow the southern coastline then north to Port Huron mid-October.

You may want to schedule in some down time for sleep !

[GordMay]

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, John.

[Mike OReilly]

Way too ambitious for my liking. Given your short LWL, your top speed is likely around 4 knots. I think you will be hard pressed to keep up that pace. I bet you’ll be doing a lot of point-to-point crossings, with little time to actually see and enjoy what you’re passing through, but to each his own. And you can expect to get storm-bound a number of times, especially on Superior. I’ve sat for over a week at times.

Technically a Flicka does not qualify for a Welland transit. It’s too light, and just squeaks in on the length limit. You may want to contact the Seaway to confirm they’ll let you through.

Good luck.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Technically a Flicka does not qualify for a Welland transit. It’s too light, and just squeaks in on the length limit. You may want to contact the Seaway to confirm they’ll let you through.

Good luck.

He could bypass the Welland by dropping the stick and going through the Erie Canal.

[LakeSuperior]

Maybe it's just me but it seems like you will be using the Great Lakes as a gymnasium. I would do the circumnavigations over a five year period. Then we could have a beer together when you get to the Keweenaw Peninsula.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

He could bypass the Welland by dropping the stick and going through the Erie Canal.

Probably a better option. Personally I’d love to do the Trent with a boat like that.

Re-reading your itinerary John it seems like you’re planning to bypass most of the North Channel and all of Georgian Bay. These are probably the BEST areas for a boat like yours. Lots of great gunk hole possibilities with a small boat there, and plenty of protection from Big Lake blows. Personally, I’d plan to get up to the North Channel, slow-cruise through there, down through Georgian Bay. Then, take the Trent down to Lake Ontario/Bay of Quinte. And if you still have time, spend it in the 1000 Islands before heading back.

BTW, coming down the St. Clair river we encountered four knots of current in places. It’s probably less in the fall when you’re heading upstream, but you better make sure your engine can manage the flow.

I hope you’re a pretty experienced sailor and remote cruiser. I know Lake Superior well. I spent over a decade cruising mostly the north and east (Canadian) shores. I would not do, nor recommend, what you plan to do in a boat that size. Of course it can be done — people sail across the Atlantic in bathtubs — but it will be difficult, and potentially dangerous if something goes off the rails.

I and BP and LS are not trying to be negative. But what you plan is a very large undertaking in a pretty small boat. On these forums we get a lot of delusional dreamers, along with extremely seasoned veterans. It’s sometimes hard to tell them apart .

[30yearslater]

Hello again John. Mike has a number of good points as does boatpoker. A one season circumnavigation of the GL is a big undertaking. Temperature in spring is brutally cold. The St. Clare and Detroit Rivers have currents that make downbound travel a delight and an upbound journey a lesson in patience. Storms are a real thing here. While they last less than ocean storms they are none the less vicious. Weather reporting is a crap shoot at best as these storms literally pop up out of nowhere with nothing for advance warning beyond an hour or two. The Chicago Mackinac race last year had a number of boats dismasted and some crew overboard emergencies during one such storm. The Lake Ontario 300 got hit with the same storm but managed to survive a bit better. The year before most boats dropped out due to 1 knot speeds for several days. Your boat is trailerable which could also be a fun way to do it. It would eliminate the worst parts and still offer sailing most of the highlights.

[ramblinrod]

Originally Posted by JOHN LECZNAR

Seeking advise on the following:

I have purchased a bare bones 1979 Pacific Seacraft Flicka with the intent to ready her this summer for circumnavigating the Great Lakes coastline next season, I'm anticipating it will take 5-6 months. (Bucket List - I'm retired and on a tight budget).

Project elements (to date):
1) I've rebuilt the hatch in oak and teak;
2) I've ordered a set of new sails (North Sails) and considering asking a forestay for a storm jib;
3) I'm having a dodger installed and have been advised to add a Bimini;
4) I've added shoreline power and would like to add capability to charge my batteries will docked;
5) I purchased a bladder to attach to my water pump faucet;
6) I purchased a porta-potty;
7) I'm researching to select and install a sailing GPS.

Greatly appreciated.

First, this trip is on my bucket list too.

We plan on doing it over a 5 year period (after Bahamas). We have already covered 1/10 of Georgian Bay, 1/5 of the North Channel, and 1/2 of Lake Ontario in just over 20 years of weekends and summer vacations.

There is no question it could be done in one boating season, but here are some thoughts:

1. I can't think of a single Great Lake, where all of their important wonders can be enjoyed in a single season on their own. All great lakes in one season? You will miss a lot. My recommendation is to slow down and enjoy, if possible.

2. You leave yourself no time to shake down and learn the boat. It is possible to learn on the fly of course; but it's harder. You may find that you made "improvements" that weren't necessary (and will depreciate your boat at resale time) and didn't make improvements that should have been made.

3. Heater. I hope it is a proper marine heater, so you don't asphyxiate or CO poison yourself.

4. I would question the storm jib for Great Lakes adventures.

The Flicka is a stout boat and can stand up to a fair breeze.

You will rarely be more than 15 miles (3 hours) from safe refuge. While you will most likely be caught in a squall, they come on ya fast and they leave ya fast, with no time to put up a storm jib. Best to have a really good reefing system that you can operate instantly and effortlessly for all sails.

5. A sailor on a schedule is a dangerous thing indeed.

So our plan, is when we retire, to do each Great Lake per season. We will not have a home port, but just start where we start at the front of the season and stop where we stop at the end, and then head home, or fly south, until the next season.

<<<<<<<<<<<<< >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
But whatever you decide, Koodos to you for having a dream and setting a plan in place to make it happen.

[ramblinrod]

PS, add refrigeration, hot water, proper marine head and holding tank, propane BBQ, and at least 400W of solar charging.


If you can't do refrigeration and solar, we used to use 2 x Igloo 5 day coolers. Each would take 2 ice blocks in the bottom. One was frequent access (beverages) and the other long term cold storage (meats). On about the 3rd day we would transfer one of the remaining blocks from long term to help the depleting ice in the frequent access.


The other limiting factor will be head. If sticking with the porta potti, ensure it is at least 5 Gallon. That should give you 5 days storage aboard, easy for a single or conserving for a couple.

Oh, and a good dinghy with outboard, to explore ashore.

Of course you don't have to do these things, but it will make your vessel feel more like a resort than a pup tent, and will be significantly more attractive to your partner you take with you, or meet along the way. ;-)

PS, we have led many a sailor of the Trailer Sailor Association through various sections of the North Channel. You really don't want to miss this.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by JOHN LECZNAR

I have purchased a bare bones 1979 Pacific Seacraft Flicka with the intent to ready her this summer for circumnavigating the Great Lakes coastline next season, I'm anticipating it will take 5-6 months. (Bucket List - I'm retired and on a tight budget).

Project elements (to date):
1) I've rebuilt the hatch in oak and teak;
2) I've ordered a set of new sails (North Sails) and considering asking a forestay for a storm jib;
3) I'm having a dodger installed and have been advised to add a Bimini;
4) I've added shoreline power and would like to add capability to charge my batteries will docked;
5) I purchased a bladder to attach to my water pump faucet;
6) I purchased a porta-potty;
7) I'm researching to select and install a sailing GPS.

First of all, congratulations! I hear that Flicka's are fine craft - very classic.
Inboard engine?


Comments by the number:
2) I assume you have reefing points on the mainsail? Is the headsail a jib or genoa? Is it furling or hank-on? Given our light winds during the summer, a drifter might be a better purchase than a storm jib.


3) Dodgers are cool - one came with our 19' boat. A bimini might be overkill; on the other hand with a bimini and a full enclosure, you get that much more living space when not sailing.


6) as already mentioned, a Canadian boat needs the porta-potty plumbed to a deck pump-out fitting and a vent, to qualify as a "MSD Type III". It's kind of dumb, and it's hilarious when we pull up to a pump out and we're done in like 7 seconds. If you're a US registered boat, and you're only visiting Cdn waters for like 2 months, I think you get an exemption...?


7) My gude wyfe gave me a Garmin GPSMAP 64st for Christmas, and I added the map chip for all Canadian waters, and it's a great GPS for our small boat, and also useful for hikes, biking, canoeing, road trips, etc. I love it. You can also find similar devices used , at a good discount. And you can also do a lot with a tablet or laptop and OpenCPN. At the very bottom, i found a basic LOWRANCE GPS handheld (no maps) for $15 at a flea market.


In your Sperrys, I think I would just plan an excursion for the season - eg start in one of the lower lakes, head up to Georgian Bay as it warms up, then back down in the fall. If you have some sort of arrangement for raising/lowering the mast by yourself, you can do some of the canals.


Something that we particularly love - trailering our boat up to some of the larger cottage lakes. They're fun sailing, gorgeous scenery, swimmable.